By
Rachel Solomon
May 29, 2009
On May 13, President Barack Obama reversed a court order mandating the Pentagon’s release of photographs illustrating U.S. military personnel allegedly torturing prisoners of war. The photos were supposed to be released yesterday.
To protest this refusal to publish the pictures, members of World Can’t Wait (WCW), a national organization that says they’re dedicated to, among other issues, prosecuting those who permitted torture during the Bush administration, held a waterboarding demonstration in Red Square yesterday as part of the National Day of Resistance to U.S. Torture.
“We’re out here today because torture is still happening under the Obama administration, and we think that those who orchestrated this torture from the highest level of government need to be prosecuted for war crimes,” said Emma Kaplan, national youth and student coordinator for WCW.
Waterboarding is a technique that involves a detainee being strapped to a board while water is poured over his or her face so it enters the nose and lungs to simulate drowning.
Kaplan volunteered for a simulation of the procedure, allowing two “interrogators” to question her and slosh water over her face — covered with a mask to prevent any water from actually entering her lungs — as she shouted and struggled.
“It’s really, really scary because you can’t move, you’re tied down and you have absolutely no control over what’s being done to you, and they’re asking these questions, and I don’t know the answers,” Kaplan said following the experience. “There are a lot of people who have been detained who don’t know anything about al-Qaida or terrorism.”
Some UW students present said they found the demonstration ineffective yet disturbing.
“You can’t really demonstrate waterboarding,” said junior Micah Babinski. “Waterboarding is simulated drowning, and [the demonstration] was simulated waterboarding. It just showed how removed we are from the actual actions of our government.”
Others at the demonstration expressed that the administration shift was unsuccessful in remedying the human-rights violations occurring overseas.
“I voted for Barack Obama … thinking he would make a decision soon to prosecute people who have supported torture,” said senior Jonny Yap. “If you’re not going to do anything about it, you’re complicit. I actually want to do something to stop torture.”
Kaplan said that WCW and other groups, including the campus group Democracy Insurgent, plan to extend their protest to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates’ commencement speech June 13, in response to Gates’ statement that Guantanamo is “probably one of the finest prisons in the world.”
“We’ll probably show up [and] make the opinion on campus known that the student body is in opposition to the complacency of torture,” Babinski said.
Reach reporter Rachel Solomon at news@dailyuw.com.
22 Comments
#1 Adam D.
on May 29, 2009 at 1:49 p.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
Calling waterboarding "simulated" drowning is inaccurate. You CAN actually drown from the procedure and suffer from the physical effects of drowning. "Controlled Drowning" is better term to describe it.
#2 Nick J.
on May 29, 2009 at 7:28 p.m.(None, None | UW Community)
How dumb do you have to be to subject yourself to waterboarding just to prove a point? Seriously.
Anyway, the definition of torture under the Convention Against Torture is the infliction of "severe" mental or physical pain. Waterboarding doesn't fit that description.
This was a practice that was done to THREE high-level al-Qaeda terrorists, none of which drowned, and ALL of which revealed valuable intelligence.
#3 Shane M.
on May 29, 2009 at 7:47 p.m.(Seattle, WA | UW Community)
“There are a lot of people who have been detained who don’t know anything about al-Qaida or terrorism.”
What does detention have to do with waterboarding? Obviously the actual terrorists who actually were waterboarded revealed information to prevent further attacks on America. She implies a greater concern for terrorists than the actual deaths of her fellow Americans.
#4 Nick J.
on May 29, 2009 at 7:50 p.m.(None, None | UW Community)
What I said above is what makes this comment by Kaplan so ridiculous:
“There are a lot of people who have been detained who don’t know anything about al-Qaida or terrorism.”
She implies that every one of those people have been waterboarded. That's wholly untrue, and makes her look incredibly foolish.
#5 Nick J.
on May 29, 2009 at 7:50 p.m.(None, None | UW Community)
Exactly Shane!
#6 Chris J.
on May 29, 2009 at 8:34 p.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
Don't forget Nick, it's "severe pain or SUFFERING" in the Convention Against Torture.
Waterboarding is basically drowning you but stopping it before you die. That would seem to me to fit "severe mental suffering" at least. But that's just me.
#7 Shane M.
on May 29, 2009 at 9:03 p.m.(Seattle, WA | UW Community)
Don't forget Chris, "Waterboarding is basically drowning you but stopping before you die."
Exactly! We stop before they die... they're not giving us such mercy.
#8 Nick J.
on May 29, 2009 at 9:50 p.m.(None, None | UW Community)
Chris, didn't mean to exclude "suffering", my bad. Doesn't really add anything to the debate, though. Pain=suffering, suffering=pain.
Regardless, my point remains the same. In my judgment, waterboarding does not inflict SEVERE physical or mental pain or suffering. It's certainly not supposed to be a pleasant experience, but it doesn't cause any long-term physical or mental damage.
#9 Sean K.
on May 29, 2009 at 11:18 p.m.(Seattle, WA | UW Community)
How do you square your rationalization of institutionalised sadism with "Christianity"?
Christ would be nauseous.
#10 MikeN
on May 30, 2009 at 1:38 a.m.(Seattle, WA | UW Community)
Waterboarding is torture. That's why we include it in military SERE training. That's why we put Japanese soldiers on trial for doing it to our soldiers. Its been used by everyone from the Spanish Inquisition to the Khmer Rouge. Theres no doubt that it causes severe pain and suffering.
#11 Russ W.
on May 30, 2009 at 5:42 a.m.(Redmond, WA)
"Its been used by everyone from the Spanish Inquisition to the Khmer Rouge."
Ergo, Eisenhower should not have built the interstate highway system in the US because Hitler built the autobahns in Germany. Even if you don't like waterboarding, this isn't a sensible reason not to waterboard people. You could say the same of a huge variety of proceedings ranging from parking tickets to plain vanilla imprisonment to summary execution. It means nothing.
#12 Adam D.
on May 30, 2009 at 1 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | UW Community)
<<Even if you don't like waterboarding, this isn't a sensible reason not to waterboard people. >>
You mean outside the fact that methods like waterboarding are regarded as poor methods of intelligence gathering, and many intelligence experts give the CIA poor rankings because of their reliance?
There is a reason why the Army Field Manual tells its soldiers not to torture.
#13 Nick J.
on May 30, 2009 at 2:39 p.m.(None, None)
MikeN, perhaps you should better inform yourself before you make those kind of comments. Not one American has EVER been prosecuted solely for waterboarding. Not one.
And saying "there's no doubt" it causes SEVERE pain and suffering establishes an absolute that you can't possibly justify or know is accurate.
#14 Nick J.
on May 30, 2009 at 2:41 p.m.(None, None)
And Sean, you can keep mocking Christians for supporting waterboarding, but that reflects poorly on you, not us. I, as a Christian, believe it's necessary to defeat our enemies, using whatever means we have to within the confines of the law. I don't believe waterboarding is against the law. If you do, then that's your opinion. Don't chastise mine.
#15 Nick J.
on May 30, 2009 at 2:43 p.m.(None, None)
And Mike, another thing. The type of waterboarding the Japanese did IS NOT COMPARABLE to what we're doing. They used salt water, and jumped on their victims' chests, killing many of them in the process.
We don't do any of that.
Again, please inform yourself before you post comments.
#16 Nick J.
on May 30, 2009 at 2:47 p.m.(None, None)
"You mean outside the fact that methods like waterboarding are regarded as poor methods of intelligence gathering, and many intelligence experts give the CIA poor rankings because of their reliance?"
This is pure nonsense. Absolute rubbish. Obama's very own Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, said that we received "high value intelligence" from our enhanced interrogation program. As did Michael Hayden, George Tenet, Michael Mukasey, and a host of other intelligence officials.
#17 Adam D.
on May 30, 2009 at 3:07 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | UW Community)
<<I don't believe waterboarding is against the law. If you do, then that's your opinion. Don't chastise mine.>>
Your opinion is wrong. Live with it.
<<This is pure nonsense. Absolute rubbish.>>
The list of CIA's own failures as an intelligence agency is pretty well known.
Obama's very own Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, said that we received "high value intelligence" from our enhanced interrogation program. As did Michael Hayden, George Tenet, Michael Mukasey, and a host of other intelligence officials.>>
The same intelligence officials who seem to try to overlook the fact that the evidence for WMDs in Iraq often came from waterboarded sources. Yes, you can actually get good information IF the source actually has it and is willing. However, you'll also get a crapload of bad information from sources who are just trying to say ANYTHING to end the pain.
The Army Field Manual explicitly explains this and condemns torture or similar forms of interrogation on these grounds.
#18 MikeN
on May 30, 2009 at 5:19 p.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
Nick:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
"Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk."
#19 Nichole L.
on June 2, 2009 at 8:39 p.m.(Seattle, WA | UW Community)
“You can’t really demonstrate waterboarding,” said junior Micah Babinski. “Waterboarding is simulated drowning, and [the demonstration] was simulated waterboarding.”
Awesome.
#20 Rebecca_F
on June 10, 2009 at 12:48 p.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
I don't think its fair to describe support of waterboarding to prevent terrorist attacks (especially by someone who probably has never and will never participate or witness the event) as sadism. Sadism is infliction of suffering on others for personal (especially sexual) pleasure. Whether whatever effectiveness waterboarding has is sufficient to outweigh the degree of suffering inflicted during the procedure or not, the stated objective is something noble (preventing terrorist attacks). Even if we assume that waterboarding is not a justifiable tactic, I think using it in a sincere effort to stop terrorism would be a lesser offense than using it for personal gratification. If someone were to waterboard another person for their own amusement, that would certainly be vile and I don't think anyone who has participated in this discussion would defend that.
#21 Rebecca_F
on June 10, 2009 at 12:51 p.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
I'm deliberately not taking sides on the main question, Is waterboarding acceptable to obtain information from terrorists? I'm not partly because I don't feel I know enough about the procedure and don't feel strongly on it. And please don't misunderstand "don't feel strongly on it". Yes, it matters. I just haven't developed enough understanding of this particular issue at this particular time to want to get involved in the debate.
#22 ecgaud
on June 16, 2009 at 11:57 a.m.(Vallejo, CA | UW Community)
In response to Nick J:
You stated:
"Regardless, my point remains the same. In my judgment, waterboarding does not inflict SEVERE physical or mental pain or suffering. It's certainly not supposed to be a pleasant experience, but it doesn't cause any long-term physical or mental damage."
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing you have never been tortured in such a way, so how exactly are you qualified to comment on the severity of waterboarding?
Also,
"This was a practice that was done to THREE high-level al-Qaeda terrorists, none of which drowned, and ALL of which revealed valuable intelligence"
Perhaps inflicting such pain and suffering on another human being, even if they are guilty of some crime against America, isn't as effective as some people want to believe.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090616/...
"Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, an accused top Al-Qaeda operative and self-confessed mastermind of the September 11 attacks, claimed to have lied under torture by the CIA, according to government transcripts released Monday.
"I just make up stories," he said in broken English, telling a 2007 military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay of an interrogation session during which he was asked about the location of Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden."
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