By
Lexie Krell
October 27, 2009
UW senior Stanley Luong has a concealed-pistol permit and carries a handgun.
He has also been robbed on four different occasions.
Luong’s personal experience with robbery and crime in the U-District led him to create the Facebook group “University of Washington Campus Vigilantes,” with the intent to patrol the Ave with other students who had also obtained concealed-pistol permits.
“After something like that happens to you, you get really paranoid … and having a gun helps you move on,” Luong said. “You feel safer … like you’re in control of the situation or have some control if something happens.”
The group had about 15 members join early this month before it was removed by site administrators only 48 hours after its creation due to “a violation of terms.” Even though the group no longer exists, students are continuing to carry concealed weapons in the U-District, citing a need to protect themselves amid what they feel has been an increased level of crime in the U-District during the past years. The UW Police Department (UWPD) has sent notification of 10 assaults and robberies in just the past two months.
“The police will never be there,” Luong said. “It will take them at least, like, three or four minutes before they can get there, and by that time, the robbers are gone. It’s all about taking the law into your own hands and doing the things the police aren’t doing.”
John Vinson, chief of UWPD encourages students to call 911 first in the case of an emergency.
“I would not advocate the student utilizing a weapon without allowing law enforcement to respond to the situation,” Vinson said. “The response time should be relatively quick; I would not advocate them taking the law into their own hands.”
Some students, however, disagree.
Senior Luis Garcia, a concealed-pistol-permit holder and member of the former Facebook group, said that he contacted authorities after being robbed on Greek Row in August 2008 and waited 20 minutes for an officer to respond.
“I ended up getting the run around over the phone,” Garcia said. “There [seemed] to be a communication issue between the UWPD and the SPD as to whose jurisdiction the Greek system [was] in.”
Garcia said that getting the knowledge to obtain a permit and learning the proper safety procedures associated with the responsibility of concealed-weapon permits would both be benefits of creating a student organization for students who carry concealed weapons.
“As of now, it’s just an idea, but I believe that it has all the necessary components to become a large student organization,” Garcia said. “If they go about it in a legal manner … there’s no reason that anyone should hesitate about getting this permit if they are educated about it.”
When asked about the prohibition of weapons on campus, Luong said he cannot encourage students with permits to carry guns on campus, but he feels that a number of people do.
“I definitely believe that [there are] a lot of people who carry on campus,” Luong said. “People are carrying because … they want to have the responsibility. They like being in control of the situation if something happened.”
Vinson said that the Washington Administrative Code prohibits the possession or use of weapons on campus.
The UW College Republicans held an event calling for concealed carry to be allowed on campus last year. The organization’s president, Justin Bryant, who also holds a concealed pistol permit, said that students with the proper training who carry concealed weapons make the U-District safer.
“Whenever I’m going through high-traffic areas late at night, I carry to protect myself from all the robbers,” Garcia said. “I’ve been jumped twice in the U-District; I think that it’s good for students to be able to protect themselves.”
Reach reporter Lexie Krell at news@dailyuw.com.
121 Comments
#1 nickj116
on October 27, 2009 at 5:20 a.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
Before all the Liberals freak out on you, I just want to say I'm all for you guys carrying on the Ave, and I wish you could carry on campus (legally).
This notion that if we allowed concealed carry on campus, students would be in MORE danger is nonsense. Ask the victims of any college shooting (VA Tech comes to mind) if they would have preferred that there would have been armed students to stop the shooter from killing more kids, and 99/100 would say yes.
#2 Craig
on October 27, 2009 at 6:38 a.m.(Burnsville, MN | Unverified Name)
Stanley Luong
Id love to have you on my Face book Sir
#3 Stanley Luong
on October 27, 2009 at 6:54 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
I created the group "University of Washington Campus Vigilantes" on facebook with the intent of recruiting my friends to patrol the OUTSIDE of campus with me during our free time. Apparently, a coward or two out of the three hundred people I invited reported me to facebook. The group was removed less than two days after it was created and all I got was an email from facebook saying,
"The group "University of Washington Campus Vigilantes" has been removed because it violated our Terms of Use. Among other things, groups that are hateful, threatening, or obscene are not allowed. We also take down groups that attack an individual or group, or advertise a product or service. Continued misuse of Facebook's features could result in your account being disabled.
If you have any questions or concerns, you can visit our FAQ page at http://www.facebook.com/help.php?topi...
PS. I ain't hard to find.
#4 Laurence Almand
on October 27, 2009 at 7:24 a.m.(Knoxville, TN | Unverified Name)
As a licensed concealed carry person here in Tennessee, I applaud student Luong's efforts to protect himself and others from danger. One of the reasons why criminals prey on college students - and so many shootings occur on college campuses - is because criminals know the people are vulnerable and virtually defenseless. If more criminals were shot by citizens, there would be much less crime.
#5 Carl McGrath
on October 27, 2009 at 7:54 a.m.(Gillette, WY | Unverified Name)
I am licensed in WY and I fully agree. All that is accomplished by these restrictions is the creation of "soft target" rich enviornmemts for criminals everywhere. Mabey if they had to deal with the idea that they might get shot at they might consider another line of work and we would have much less crime
#6 Squeaky Duck
on October 27, 2009 at 8:36 a.m.(Eureka, CA | Unverified Name)
So much for a concealed weapon now. Everyone now knows this guy has one. Both good guys and bad guys. I would never admit to having one to the public since the bad guy might try to ambush you to take you gun for their illicit use.
#7 Earl
on October 27, 2009 at 8:56 a.m.(Annandale, VA | Unverified Name)
I'd lose the term "vigilante" if I were you. Being a concealed carry holder doesn't turn you into an armed guard or pseudo-police officer. While I appreciate your desire to protect other students, that's not your job. Protect yourself within the boundaries of the law and be a good face for gun ownership... not someone who speaks about "vigilantism".
#8 chopper
on October 27, 2009 at 8:58 a.m.(Rochester, MI | Unverified Name)
good for Stanley Luong
#9 David M. Bennett
on October 27, 2009 at 9:22 a.m.(Bangkok, Thailand | Unverified Name)
Start up another facebook group without the term 'vigilantes' and you should be good to go. Keep the rhetoric down and you won't be violating Facebook's terms (they were really stretching it in taking your site down initially in my humble opinion). By the way, good choice in that Kel-Tec PF-9, good compact little 9 mm!
#10 Johnny Bang Bang
on October 27, 2009 at 9:42 a.m.(Orland, CA | Unverified Name)
All americans have a right to self defence. If the police or government is not able to render assistance in a timely manner, then all citizens are required to act accordingly to the situation. I am a permit holder, but I never hesitated to carry concealed prior, if I suspected even the potential for greivous injury, or danger. Everyone should get a permit, and carry. You might just save someones daughter, son, mother, father, or other family member. Everyone in the USA should also join the NRA, to help defend our God given instincts for self preservation. It is a GOOD vs. EVIL environment. Learn it, Love it, Live.
#11 owlafaye
on October 27, 2009 at 10:03 a.m.(Wilson Creek, WA)
Johnny Bang Bang and most of the other commenters here are quite correct. Students should get their concealed carry and do so on campus without telling anyone. Simply conceal it well and keep your mouth shut. The campus administration obviously has their head(s) in the sand. The right to defend yourself is basic and natural...DO SO !
#12 Chris
on October 27, 2009 at 10:30 a.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
I don't check my 1st Amendment guaranteed rights at the door, I should have to check those guaranteed by the 2nd either.
Vigilantism? "taking the law into your own hands"...? No. What I know is that when you fear an immediate threat to life or limb you have the absolute right to use force, including lethal force, to defend yourself or someone else.
I don't carry on campus because I don't want to be expelled (call me a sheep). I don't carry "when I go somewhere dangerous" because if I think a place is dangerous I don't go there. I carry when and where I can because I know I will not choose if/when/where my life or someone else's will be threatened - When the time for action has come the time for preparation has passed.
Know your rights, defend your rights, and always push for the recognition of your rights.
For more information on concealed carry (with a focus on students), check out concealedcampus.org
Stay safe out there.
#13 Minnesotan
on October 27, 2009 at 11:06 a.m.(Princeton, MN | Unverified Name)
Student Luong. Good for you. I do agree with some of the bloggers on this site that you should lose the "vigilante". Go with an acronym like CGG so as not to alert the anti gunners that are just looking for an excuse to find fault and use lame logic of questioning your manhood. "Campus Good Guys" comes to mind. You're not trying to be bad a$$e$ and "vigilante" kind of suggests that. The Brady, American Hunters and Shooters Assn and Bloomberg's MAIG has learned that trick. They disguise their name to disguise their agenda, but they fool no one.
How can you tell when anti gun logic is false? When you see their lips move.
You can bring to point the UTAH campus's have made CWC legal. No truth to the arguments of beer barrel gun battles, parking spot gun rage, or professors being shot over a bad grade. No Cho's gunning down 32 innocent students either like at Virginia Tech. Where are the anti gunner rantings in the light of UTAH's reality? Off finding new prey. You......
Do yourself a favor. Get everyone that wanted to join your neighborhood watch to join the NRA and be a member 5 million strong. Let's see them shut down THEIR facebook.
You hang in there big shooter. There are a whole bunch of us.
#14 nickj116
on October 27, 2009 at 11:16 a.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
Lovin' these comments. This is awesome.
#15 Omak, WA Isher
on October 27, 2009 at 11:45 a.m.(Helena, MT | Unverified Name)
As a UW student at a time before weapons were outlawed on campus, I carried a concealed handgun with me when I went to classes or the libraries or labs at night. If I lived near campus now, I would still carry if walking in the U District. But I WOULD NOT carry a weapon if on campus. I WOULD NOT encourage anyone else to carry concealed on campus either as it is apparently a crime to do so and could jeopardize a person's student status if discovered. These anti-carry statutes are under attack in many places and progress is being made. Please don't be the one who sends an errant bullet through an Administration Building window and sets the cause for concealed carry back to zero. Short of discharging a weapon when or where you don't want, nothing is more mortifying than having your handgun slide out of your holster or backpack and clatter on the floor in a quiet Suzzalo reading room. Having carried concealed for 40+ years, I can attest that these things CAN AND DO HAPPEN! Be safe. Be Wise.
#16 nikolai
on October 27, 2009 at 12:03 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
All I'm saying is maybe if Stan was in that class when the teacher was killed my freshman year four years ago (about three blocks from Lander hall) it would have meant someone had the skills, knowledge, and courage to protect an innocent life.
#17 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 12:09 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
Hey guys;
Good for all of you! I too have a WA CPL, and visit Seattle often (one in a while to the U-District, other parts more frequently). The fact that the school (by way of W.A.C.s) prohibits carry speaks volumes about the administrators fear of the unknown (I would wager that most of the admin has never touched a gun, following the typical stereotyping for those who own and carry one). With the economy down and crime on the rise, police seem to be far to busy to get to a scene quickly, which makes it OUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY to stay safe. What is needed now is for many of the good folks in your area to stand with you to combat crime, instead of thinking "I shouldn't get involved in this, it's not my problem", because it is every bit their problem as it is yours. The criminals will look for whatever opportunity they can find (college student, homeowner, bystander, etc.).
Keep safe guys, and best of luck to you all!
#18 Removed
on October 27, 2009 at 12:29 p.m.#19 Johnny Bang Bang
on October 27, 2009 at 12:36 p.m.(Orland, CA | Unverified Name)
Hey UW, Pepperspray? Against a gun or knife or multiple assailants. Why not a cell phone to call 911....you will still be a victim. As I said it is good against evil. Wise up.
#20 notcrazy
on October 27, 2009 at 12:37 p.m.(Everett, WA | Unverified Name)
The WAC code is never going to change. It is not viable, politically or in terms of policy and safety on campus. Vigilantes are not welcome on any college campus in Washington State, just as criminals aren't either. If you're getting mugged on the Ave, then conceal & carry up and down the Ave if you will. But go home and drop you gun off before you step on the public land that I unfortunately have to share with you.
Moreover, if you get mugged and you are scared for your safety all the time, YOU SEE A THERAPIST. You do not go out and buy a gun. The sane, appropriate response: therapy. The insane/deranged response that sees attackers everywhere: buying a deadly weapon.
#21 notcrazy
on October 27, 2009 at 12:38 p.m.(Everett, WA | Unverified Name)
Sorry, "drop *your* gun off"
I shouldn't be checking my spelling at the door.
#22 Johnny Bang Bang
on October 27, 2009 at 12:39 p.m.(Orland, CA | Unverified Name)
WOW, I think all the anti-gun emails are going out. Another great debate being ruined by Obama loving liberal fanatics.
#23 notcrazy
on October 27, 2009 at 12:44 p.m.(Everett, WA | Unverified Name)
My last jab before I step out: I sincerely hope the UWPD takes the opportunity of this article to bodily search the people mentioned in it and the people commenting who claim to carry a gun on campus. It's more than enough reason under the 4th amendment to remove any illegal item you might be hiding under your creepy trenchcoat. I hope maybe the cost of having to replace your weapon deters you from breaking the law again.
#24 Johnny Bang Bang
on October 27, 2009 at 12:53 p.m.(Orland, CA | Unverified Name)
notcrazy, not!
#25 nickj116
on October 27, 2009 at 12:59 p.m.(UW Campus | UW Community)
Yep, here come the Libs...
#26 Anon
on October 27, 2009 at 1:03 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
I'll admit there's really no right approach to a solution now, but 2nd amendment rights are quite possibly the source of the problem that you're trying to fix. So citing it as an instant win is just... ignorant. I'm not saying the 2nd amendment is good or bad, I really don't know, but gun rights enable gun violence.
Personally I don't like either side of the argument, reminds me of a South Park episode with D's, P's and AH's and in this situation the D's would be the guns.
#27 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 1:06 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
Hey "notcrazy" and "UW concerned citizen":
first off, see the obvious! If it is against the law to carry on campus (actually against Wa code), follow the law and don't do it. As a CPL holder, I follow the law to the letter! You will find that almost every CPL holder does. If not, those who violate it lose their permit and are criminally charged! Let me ask you this: if you have a serious injury to your body which makes escape virtually impossible, do you stay in your house and hide because you may be attacked at some point? I have such and injury (and subsequent disability), and I refuse to hide in my home for fear. I live my life, as I should, keenly aware that some criminal piece of garbage may view me as an easy mark (due to my physical condition). I, like many others, refuse to let some thug keep me from enjoying life.
It is a free citizen's right to choose this option. If someone has a problem with that, they have the right to their opinion. However, they don't have the right to demonize those who have made the choice to exercise that right. Once an individual becomes a crime victim, oftentimes they are advised, by law enforcement, to obtain a permit and buy a gun. You might even go as far, in your wisdom, as to search the web for the King County Sheriff's comments about "getting a gun" to protect oneself. I guess she needs a therapist too?
Just as everyone here has the right to post comments (opinions), every right we have comes with responsibilities. Don't denegrate another's rights, yet uphold your own as greater than theirs!
#28 Anon
on October 27, 2009 at 1:12 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Mike,
"The fact that the school (by way of W.A.C.s) prohibits carry speaks volumes about the administrators fear of the unknown"
Hilarious. A person lobbying for gun rights criticizes the other side for 'fear of the unknown'.
#29 T Schock
on October 27, 2009 at 1:26 p.m.(Harrisburg, PA | Unverified Name)
Last time I checked, accusing someone of committing a crime (as the person did who said this student was selling drugs) is itself a crime.
Has Mr. Luong been charged with such a crime? Has he been convicted of it? I don't think so. You're not a cop, you're not a judge, and you're not sitting on his jury--so you really have no leg to stand on when making those claims.
I don't know the kid, but he's got to assume that this will draw attention to him everywhere he goes on that campus--meaning he's going to get searched by campus police on a daily basis now that they know he advocates carrying a gun to protect himself. That doesn't really sound like the kind of activity an "illicit drug dealer" would like to attract.
To all of you out there who think people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns for protection, I've got news for you. There are millions of us who do. We're everywhere. When you're on a bus, someone sitting near you has a gun--when you're at the mall--more people around you have guns.
Now, let that sink in. Everywhere you go that people are around in numbers, someone has a gun. How many times have you seen those guns "go off" accidentally? How many times have you seen someone go spontaneously insane and start shooting people? How many times have you even seen one drawn?
For the vast majority of you, the answer will be never. That should tell you something about the whole situation.
There are millions of people who carry guns and do so legally. They are peaceful people who shudder to think that they will ever have to use their gun, but are willing and able to do so if necessary.
Remember too, that we don't care what you think of us. We understand and respect the responsibility that comes along with carrying a firearm.
Even though you may not support our rights, there's not a single one of us that wouldn't exercise them in defense of you if we found you in trouble.
#30 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 1:31 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
Anon and others like you:
I thought you'd find that funny?!?
As a former crime victim myself, I think your point about the "fear of the unknown" is laughable. For me, it is no longer unknown.
Let me ask you this: if someone is looking to harm you, are you going to let them do it and hope the police catch them eventually? Meanwhile, during your stay at Harborview Trauma Center, the purp continues his activities, realizing that you are probably too afraid to identify them to LE (if you are in any condition to make a statement at that point). One day, the same purp that assaulted you has a face-to-face with an armed citizen, who either deters the activity or ends the rampage. Problem solved! Do some research about those who commit violent and property crimes (those who end up in the system). The overwhelming majority of them will tell you that they don't want to take a chance on a would-be victim who may be armed.
Which one are you?
#31 Justin
on October 27, 2009 at 1:35 p.m.(Gaithersburg, MD | Unverified Name)
good for them .
we need more legally armed citizens
#32 NWNative73
on October 27, 2009 at 1:45 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Wow...this quickly turned into a jabbing match instead of a constructive conversation/opinions.
Imagine this....you are walking down the Ave. and a group of thugs tries to rob you. You pull your gun...one of them grabs you and another grabs the gun. Now the thugs have your gun AND your belongings. The thugs then take your gun and hold up another victim. That victim fights back and the thug shoots that victim with your gun. Then the thug decides that he can do so much more with this new gun and him imagined sense of more power. And for the next few years, the thug, his gang, and the gun is out there to do his bidding.
Hrm....how does it feel to know that the gun that YOU put on the streets has been used to kill other innocent people that may have otherwise just wound up with a bloody nose because said thug cannot purchase a gun.
Lots to imagine. Things can go either way can't they?
#33 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 1:59 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
NWNative73:
Point taken, any situation can go both ways!
I wish to uphold the fact that my opinions/comments posted here are to be construed as constructive. I applaud the folks who are taking responsibility for their own safety! That is my main point.
Also, I stand with those who make the choice to take personal responsibility (instead of expecting someone else to do it for them).
Is it too much to ask that we should all be safe to go about our daily lives without the spector of becoming a victim? It is everyones right!
Students who are making that choice, I stand with you and others like you around the country!
Be safe, practice often, and abide by all applicable laws! Know that many, many more stand with you!!
#34 Mainer
on October 27, 2009 at 2:03 p.m.(Portsmouth, NH | Unverified Name)
#28 Anon says:
"Hilarious. A person lobbying for gun rights criticizes the other side for 'fear of the unknown'"
Derision is not an argument. Please explain why you find this hilarious. Are you sugggesting that lobbying for gun rights implies a fear of the unknown? Do you not "know" that criminals rob, steal and rape? Mr. Luong has been robbed four times. I think you may be laughing because you delude yourself that you will never be a crime victim.
#35 Adam-12
on October 27, 2009 at 2:15 p.m.(Memphis, TN | Unverified Name)
NWNative73, things can "go either way," but the scenario you describe is not a likely one. Most criminals pick soft targets; it's much easier to go find a defenseless victim than to charge a man with a gun. Even if stealing guns is their object, there are safer ways for them to go about stealing guns than a mad showdown such as you describe.
That's one of the primary benefits in being prepared to resist such an attack: the vast majority of the time, your preparedness makes it possible to avoid an attack AND a fight.
In addition, anyone who carries a defensive firearm and takes the responsibility seriously will have training. That includes general safety and marksmanship, but also the legalities and ethics of self-defense, and the basics of safety. The latter includes avoiding bad situations, staying aware enough to detect them early, and gun retention.
That changes your scenario in many ways. The armed man will generally notice loiterers. He will particularly notice a "split," where two loiterers step apart so he has to walk between them. If he didn't cross the street already, he knows NOT to walk into that situation. His awareness itself will be some deterrent; soft targets are generally oblivious. In any case, it's less likely that they'll engage him within arm's length and with one guy conveniently positioned behind. And if they do, the armed man knows to create distance before drawing, because he learned about the "survival gap." He also knows how to resist a gun grab, and in an emergency how to point-shoot immediately upon clearing the holster (generally called "position 2").
If you flesh out your imagination with some facts like the above, you'll see that there's more to defending yourself then running out and buying a gun. And most gun owners know that.
#36 Mainer
on October 27, 2009 at 2:16 p.m.(Portsmouth, NH | Unverified Name)
#32 NWNative73.
Quite a scenario you've imagined. You seem to be ascribing magical powers to the gun. Your imagined thug would only cause bloody noses, but the magic gun makes him murderous. And where did you get the idea that a criminal can't buy a gun ? Not legally perhaps, but the tool of his chosen trade is easily obtained.
Wild flights of fancy do not a constructive argument make.
#37 zero
on October 27, 2009 at 2:31 p.m.(Halethorpe, MD | Unverified Name)
yeah Stanley
now thats american patriotism
id call your group "UW campus defenders"
or something similar
vigilante will ruffle too many feathers even if you seek only to protect yourself
good luck stanely !!
#38 justin
on October 27, 2009 at 2:32 p.m.(Gaithersburg, MD | Unverified Name)
NWNative73-- that argument dosen't fly anymore - thats the same thing the anti-gun groups say everytime that a new concealed carry law is passed they say " the criminal will take the gun from you and shoot you " but it never happens .
#39 Anon
on October 27, 2009 at 2:42 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
"Are you sugggesting that lobbying for gun rights implies a fear of the unknown? Do you not "know" that criminals rob, steal and rape?"
My point exactly! Just saying that if you are lobbying for gun rights you don't really have any room to be calling someone paranoid. And to try to use it for your agenda is preposterous.
Didn't know The Daily got out to all the hillbillies until this article showed up.
#40 skeptical
on October 27, 2009 at 2:55 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name)
I don't buy it at all, T Shock. A lot of the people who conceal & carry are people who couldn't care less about GBLTQ people or people of color being victims of hate crimes on college campuses and in the area. Don't put yourself on a pedestal when we all know you are going to fall off.
The CRs in this article are people who have advocated that Muslims are all terrorists and that gays do not deserve equal rights. I'd prefer people who denigrate others rights NOT to have deadly weapons.
#41 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 2:55 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
Anon:
Living less than 5 miles from the UW hardly qualifies me for "hillbilly" status, wouldn't you agree?
Does someone with a reasonable expectation of personal safety deserve this classification? If so, almost the entire country is made up of "hillbillies", which means you are in the minority my friend!
If this is the case, yee-haw, and proud of it brother!
#42 Chaz
on October 27, 2009 at 3:01 p.m.(Location Unknown | Unverified Name | UW Community)
#1 sorry but you disgust me. I'm a Virginia native with friends who went though the tech shootings. Some folks didn't survive. I have no problem with you advocating your opinion but using the tragedy of others to do so is wrong. Many there did and still don't condone have weapons on campus. Further, your comparing a rampage by an unbalanced person to robbery and assault is tone deaf.
#43 Dave
on October 27, 2009 at 3:52 p.m.(Pacific, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
The UW police would be incredibly unwise to take action against any posters on this forum, or Mr. Luong himself. The people who post here are likely fanatical about their 4th amendment rights, and will have studied tactics to deal with police fingering.
Also, if you look for the enforceability of the WAC code that prohibits weapons on campus, you'll note that it is no more a crime than TRESPASSING. This means that it is a misdemeanor, also meaning that you won't lose your gun, but you will likely get the boot from school.
If you are stopped by police, refuse all searches, and get that camera phone out. Take video if possible.
#44 NWNative73
on October 27, 2009 at 4:08 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Adam, Mainer, and Justin - Well, the thing is, people are not required to get training before they buy a gun or before they get their license to carry a concealed weapon. Not here in WA at least. Or at least not 10 years ago (I admit, I don’t know the rules about that anymore, so it may have changed). And in my brother’s sense of macho-ness, he purchased and carried that gun. That gun was also taken from him in a strong armed robbery involving three suspects. And some time later, that gun was then used to kill someone….and my brother has never forgiven himself. I guess bad guys think that a skinny white guy looks like a “defenseless victim”. And maybe that is one of the reasons that my brother bought and carried that gun?? He thought it would make him look less like a victim??? I don’t know.
So Adam, please do not tell me that my scenario is “not a likely one” as it happened and happens more often than you might think.
And Mainer, I’m sorry that you find my family’s story a “wild flight of fancy”. I cannot help that you are not aware of what happens in this country…let alone the rest of the world.
And Justin, if you think it “never happens”….think again and please educate yourself.
I think a large part of the problem is that people do not know (and are not taught), and do not take (and are not made to) the responsibility of carrying a gun seriously and some (perhaps most) do not get the necessary training. And I am not talking about going shooting at the range.
I stopped carrying my gun. It now is safely locked away at home and ready to be used to defend my family and my home.
Take care, be safe, be realistic, and don’t be macho past your capabilities. And if one day you should save my life with that gun of yours….I will appreciate and be indebted to you for life. Thank you for your willingness to protect the innocent’s of this great country of ours.
#45 AntiCitizenOne
on October 27, 2009 at 4:20 p.m.(Richmond, VA | Unverified Name)
NWNative - your scenario is EXACTLY why many CCWers carry two or even MORE weapons on their body.
skeptical - you better not be generalizing all of us, would you...?
to all the antis out there, how EXACTLY is it "vigilantism" when it is already perfectly legal to defend yourself in such a manner?
#46 mahye
on October 27, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.(Crestview, FL | Unverified Name)
all law abiding people should get license and carry . there would be less rape and crime .best consealed so you got the upper hand if you are ever atacked
#47 broken
on October 27, 2009 at 4:46 p.m.(Seymour, IN | Unverified Name)
NWNative 73
Your brother shouldn't feel bad at all and should forgive himself. He didn't shoot the person, the criminal holding the gun did. If the criminal didn't have a gun, he would used something else. Having a gun doesn't take you from a thug to a murderer, that is already in the person. Just like you had a gun, it didn't make you want to go out and shoot random people. Do people have guns taken away? yes they do. The far majority do not and use it to successfully protect themselves. Guns are with us and there is no point in trying to deny it. There are going to be less police due to budget cuts. You are on your own until they get there, so you have a duty to proactively protect yourself as you are the only one responsible for it. Good luck with your personal choice and I hope it serves you well.
#48 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 4:51 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
One point, when it comes to those who carry: quite a bit of thought goes into any use of the weapon carried.
First, we assess our surroundings for danger. Second, we attempt to avoid a direct confrontation, if possible. Third, once danger is determined to exist, we put distance between ourselves and our adversary (for safety), and will perhaps call LE (if possible). Fourth, when the threat is real, or if attacked, we rely on what we have practiced/drilled with, all the while observing safety rules (backstop, bystander locations, additional threats).
Only after all these steps are taken (usually done very quickly, as there may be no time to waste) do we begin the sequence of drawing the weapon (some may warn the purp to "stay back, I have a weapon" at this time or before it). The decision to fire the weapon is generally weighed very carefully (legal implications/ramifications, right or wrong, reasonable to expect this action, justified and moral).
Sometimes, just the mere sight of a weapon being unholstered will send the purp in the opposite direction. This is the best outcome, when possible. It, however, isn't always the case, sadly. I have never met or talked with anyone who wants to have to use this kind of force, unless no other options exist. Concealed carry exists to give deterrance to the criminal element, and to allow for defense. Criminals generally don't know who in the crowd may be carrying, or who may be an off-duty officer. For society, this is best.
Concealed carry also helps those who are sensative to firearms to rest a bit easier (what can't be seen may not be there at all). It also makes it a much more dangerous practice to commit a crime where this practice is allowed (concealed carry).
#49 Sarah
on October 27, 2009 at 4:53 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
I'm a bleeding heart liberal on most issues, but I absolutely support the right to carry. Self defense is not only a constitutionally protected right, but a basic human right.
I'm sick of the vilified image of the CP holder that's always a man who carries just to be a tough guy, to feel powerful, and to intimidate. This is a straw man if anything that those of us who respect the law can easily see. Carrying is serious business. It's not posturing, it's not a way of living out some fantasy.
I would never brandish my gun solely to intimidate someone. It comes out as the absolute last defense, after i've tired to run, but been backed into a corner. It comes out when my life and physical well being are in imminent danger. As such, it's past the point of bargaining with an attacker to leave me alone and it comes out with the sole intention of killing, or at the very least, seriously maiming someone.
I make this clear because I want people who are against gun rights to understand what they're really arguing against. They aren't fighting some "tough-guy" culture. The issue is far deeper, it's to the point of life or death. When one argues against being able to legally carry, one argues against victims escaping with their lives.
#50 Gregg Weber
on October 27, 2009 at 4:59 p.m.(Bonney Lake, WA | Unverified Name)
With that name you will either get the police targeting you instead of the criminals, or doing their job better so that you won't need to patrol (without turning into a police state).
What happens to you and your group will be a good indicator if the city government is moving down the path of civil servant or the path to tyranny.
#51 Gregg Weber
on October 27, 2009 at 5:03 p.m.(Bonney Lake, WA | Unverified Name)
I'm not from Bonney Lake, WA.
I live in Seattle.
#52 Mike
on October 27, 2009 at 5:19 p.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
Sarah and Gregg;
100% spot-on!!
One who assumes the responsibility of lawful concealed carry is very aware of the what, where, when, how and why. It is a huge responsibility, not taken lightly by those who make the choice.
#53 Tim
on October 27, 2009 at 5:55 p.m.(Bellingham, WA | Unverified Name)
I'm a CPL holder and I carry everywhere I go. I believe people that carry make those around them safer.
How many people know that I carry? Some. How many people have actually seen my carry? Very very few. I don't treat it as a toy to show off, and neither do any of my friends that carry also. A gun is a tool, not some monster actively trying to kill people.
T Schock: You are absolutely correct. There are millions of us all over that carry and one could never be the wiser to it.
NWNative: I'm sorry that happened to your brother, but he shouldn't blame himself. The point that it was your brother's gun that killed someone is irrelevant. Do you realize how easy it is to buy an unregistered gun illegally? It's possible that thug has several guns, all illegally, and your brother's decision to carry has no impact on that. Laws that ban guns only affect law abiding citizens!
Despite that fact that liberals shudder and flip out at this thought, gun violence is not solved by fewer guns. Rather it is solved by more citizens carrying.
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”
That is a head of military saying he wouldn't want to fight armed civilians! What criminal would try to do the same? None. Same idea applies. Nobody would try to rob someone if they thought three or four (or even one) people nearby the intended target were carrying.
By the way, I carry the same Keltec PF-9 that Stanley does. Very nice sub-compact.
#54 UW ALUMUS
on October 27, 2009 at 5:56 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
College students should be able to carry. If the school wants to make prerequisites on carry on campus, I think any concerned CCW holder would agree its a reasonable compromise or that extra training would not be a bad thing.
Don't be a vigilante, taking justice and that kind of power is overstepping boundaries. Be responsible for your safety and let the powers that be deal with it from there. Encourage others to also protect themselves.
#55 Luis Garcia
on October 27, 2009 at 6:10 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
As I stated in the article, proper education and training are the key to being a responsible gun owner. If a law abiding citizen like Stanley or myself wish to exercise their constitutional right to bear arms and they go about it properly, I believe no one has the right to tell them otherwise. I carry to protect myself and my company, and I do so in a responsible way. I hope I never have to pull my weapon, however, I am prepared to do so if the situation warrants it. I do not flaunt the fact that I carry, or use it as an ego boost. it's simply a tool to protect myself in an increasingly dangerous neighborhood.
For those of you who wish to obtain your CPL, the process is fairly simple. Just contact your local sheriffs office.
#56 Jagermann
on October 27, 2009 at 6:49 p.m.(Wenatchee, WA | Unverified Name)
Everyone has the right to self-defense. The illegal laws that prohibit firearms on campus are dangerous and need to be repealed. They create victim disarmament zones that allow psychopaths to go on killing rampages unchallenged. They create safe havens where criminals can rob, rape and murder people without fear of resistance.
Colorado State University and the University of Utah allow the concealed carrying of firearms. They are among the safest in the country and have never had any shootings.
Everyone knows that when the good guys pack heat it sends the bad guys running. More guns = less crime. Look at Kennesaw, GA for example: In response to their rising crime rate they required every household to have at least one firearm. Their crime rate plummeted and there has not been a single murder in that city since the enactment of this law.
#57 UW ALUMNUS
on October 27, 2009 at 6:52 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
I was thinking about the quote that the UWPD Chief gave. Not to read too much into it, but it was very much a bureaucratic response. He has to promote the sense that his department's performance should be questioned. Its important to be aware that students should be cautious walking around and to not become a likely victim candidate, gun or not, walk with friends, and be aware of your surroundings.
#58 Fritz
on October 27, 2009 at 7:33 p.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
Kudos to Mr. Luong for his attempt to find justice. But be aware of some other considerations.
#6 Squeaky Duck is 100% correct. Concealed Carry means exactly that. No one should know, by your appearance or your mouth. You could be charged with a violation if you reveal, inadvertantly or otherwise.
#7 Earl is also correct. Keep your self-defense to youself and leave the patroling to the trained professionals. If you do have the bad luck to be involved in an incident, You will be arrested and likely have to defend yourself in both a criminal court and a civil court. Appelations like "vigilante" will not work in your favor.
Concealed Carry is a grave responsibility, you need to know the laws regarding lethal force, without question. Training and practice are also essential.
#59 Removed
on October 27, 2009 at 8:02 p.m.#60 Kevin
on October 27, 2009 at 8:16 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Something for Mr. Luong to keep in mind. If you ever do have to use your weapon, you are going to be sued, either by the person you shot or that persons family. Guaranteed. If it is proven that you were carrying out your "vigilantism", well, you may not fare very well in that lawsuit.
Leave the policing to the real police. Don't carry because you desire to protect others. Carry for your own self protection.
And remember, CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED. Don't tell anyone (too late for Mr. Luong).
#61 Kevin
on October 27, 2009 at 8:26 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
George,
Those are exactly the kind of comments we would expect from someone who choses to live in one of only two states that deny their residents the basic human right of self defense.
#62 Matt
on October 27, 2009 at 9:01 p.m.(Olympia, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Kevin, I think George was kidding.
I will take this opportunity though to say something. Truth be told, I wish that we lived in a country or world where we didn't have firearms. But we don't; there's a lot of firearms, weapons, and plain maliciousness right where we go to school. And that's why I think it would be very reasonable to allow students to carry on campus. Incidentally, I do not carry on campus. Nor do I even carry on the ave because I usually will be on campus for a period of time before going there and that would violate the rules. Also, for those who do carry on the ave and return their weapon to their car before entering campus please make sure it is secured beyond simply locking the glove box.
The idea of an unenforced gun free zone is stupid. It means that those who follow the laws will disarm, while those who do not follow the laws and are likely to commit crimes will be armed. A gun free zone is a great idea in an enforced context such as an airport where each and every person is actively checked for weapons. In a place like UW campus though, not smart. If I'm unarmed I seriously hope that there is a responsible person out there with a concealed pistol license, not patrolling or necessarily watching out for trouble, but just present and able to make a life saving call if it comes to that.
Ultimately, what I've found from talking to people about this is that the average person would rather have the feeling of safety than actually being safe. That is, they'd rather know that weapons are illegal where they are thus feeling safe because they're probably not any around than having responsible people with weapons. That seems pretty normal to me actually; I think that's a very normal thought to have. The feeling of safety however is not worth actually being unsafe.
There already exist evil people on our campus who at some point, will do harm to a student. Those people will probably have a gun. It's my suggestion that individuals who are good be allowed to level the playing (I guess not really playing) field with evildoers. Like people have admitted in the comments, people are CARRYING GUN ON CAMPUS. You know what, most of them are probably good people; but not all are. I'd rather it be legal to weigh the balance more heavily in having good people armed than making it illegal probably having a greater ratio of evil to good.
I'm not willing to risk the legal consequences of carrying a pistol on campus. I'll say that straight out. But you know what, I hope that in each of my classes there is a good and responsible person there who is willing to do that. I never, ever, want to hear of another school shooting where one person can do so much evil to so many. Let me put it this way: "One man with a gun can control 100 without one" -Vladimir Lenin... so let's make sure there's a good responsible person there to keep check on that "one."
#63 David William Bowden
on October 27, 2009 at 9:02 p.m.(Rego Park, NY | Unverified Name)
It is better to HAVE a gun and not NEED it than it is to NEED a gun and not HAVE it.
I hope that u will carry .44 caliber revolvers for stopping power. Automatics are not mechanically reliabe; jam too much. I suggest loading them with hollowpointe slugs with W I D E cavities to put the brakes on within the target. Good Luck!
David
#64 David William Bowden
on October 27, 2009 at 9:11 p.m.(Rego Park, NY | Unverified Name)
ERRATUM:
Post shoud have been:
"It is better to HAVE a gun and not NEED it than it is to NEED a gun and not HAVE it.
I hope that u will carry .44 caliber revolvers for stopping power. Automatics are not mechanically reliable; thay jam too much. I suggest loading them with hollowpointed slugs with W I D E cavities to put the brakes on within the target. Good Luck!
David
#65 Richard
on October 27, 2009 at 9:48 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Maybe instead of buying a gun, he can take a different route at night, avoid certain areas, and walk in a group.
If he panicks, something tells me his gun safety training won't stop him from hurting others.
Do you really want to shoot someone over an iphone?
#66 Richard
on October 27, 2009 at 9:51 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
I wouldn't suggest pepper spray or a taser, but those seem more appropriate than a gun.
I hope the cops search him at school and take his gun away.
#67 Matt
on October 27, 2009 at 10:13 p.m.(Olympia, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Richard,
You are right about avoiding certain areas, walking in a group, taking a different route and not shooting someone over an iPhone.
A person's life, even an evil person's life, is still worth more than an iPhone. Having a concealed weapon should be an augmentation to one's safety (that is, one should still follow the safety guidelines provided by the UW police).
However Richard, that's the thing, you don't know if they're going past taking that iPhone. And guess what, a pistol whip, as happened to Stanley can be deadly. Whenever someone is hitting you as hard as they can in head with a steel (or even polymer) object it's possible that you may be killed or have brain injury. I would defend myself in that case. When an evil person pulls a deadly weapon on you, they have forfeited their life.
#68 Kevin
on October 27, 2009 at 10:26 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Pepper spray is not really a good option for self defense. A lot of people are not affected by it, there are numerous cases where an attacker as been sprayed but not detered. Same thing for tasers. Plus if your attacker is upwind of you when you use pepper spray, you are probably going to wind up getting it in your eyes as well. Nope, I'll stick with bullets.
#69 Sean
on October 27, 2009 at 10:37 p.m.(Denver, CO | Unverified Name | UW Community)
These comments, while reflecting our traditions of free expression, are mostly idiocy. Guns on any campus increase everyone's risk and I hope there is ample enforcement of the no guns on campus statutes.
I've lived in the neighborhood for ten years, carry pepper spray, and let no one close enough on the street to surprise me. I'm just waiting for one of you genius gun carriers to pop some innocent student on The Ave with a stray shot as you try to live your fantasy of taking down the bad guys. Perhaps a good civil suit will always be there to remind you of the costs.
#70 Richard
on October 27, 2009 at 10:41 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Like I said, I wouldn't recommend either a taser or pepper spray. However in my opinion they are more appropriate forms of self-defense than firearms on UW campus.
I agree that the world is a dangerous place. I would say use a gun if it protected you; honestly I'm guessing it's more of a peril to yourself and others. I would like to see the survival statistics of people who pulled a gun on their assailants and those who did not. The one with the lowest mortality rat may be the best (including the people killed by stray bullets).
My argument is that there are other ways of protecting yourself other than having a gun. Walk in groups at night, and avoid shady areas. I think viligence is more appropriate than vigilantism.
#71 Kevin
on October 27, 2009 at 10:47 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Quote from Mr. Luong on Q13 Fox News: "I'm fishing for robbers." (or something along those lines)
Dude. Stop. If that is why you are doing in carrying then you really need to re-evaluate what your purposes are. Please do the rest of us a favor and do not grant anymore interviews to the media. Statements like that do absolutely nothing but give the public negative views of people who carry and give more fuel to the antis. If you want to be a cop and seek out bad guys, go through the right channels and become one. Until then, you are not a cop, so quit acting like one. Carry for your own protection, but quit "fishing for robbers" in an attempt to keep others safe.
#72 Neighbor
on October 27, 2009 at 10:56 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name)
Maybe the answer to safety for those who are not criminals or concealed weapons carriers is bullet proof vests, armor, head gear and a trained rottweiler. Stray bullets and malicious intent are two sides of the same coin. I think that would make me feel the safest.
#73 T.
on October 27, 2009 at 11:01 p.m.(Spokane, WA | Unverified Name)
I just wanted to point out that there are liberals who believe in gun rights and have a CWP.
#74 Sean
on October 27, 2009 at 11:10 p.m.(Denver, CO | Unverified Name | UW Community)
And just what is idea of this group to "patrol" The Ave really supposed to mean? You are not sworn officers. What exactly are you going to do? Violate people's civil rights to be there because of the color of their skin? As I said, with ten years living around here I've never personally witnessed any of the robberies. So what makes you think you will be "patrolling" The Ave fighting crime? I think you are proposing a slippery slope legally. If you pulled your guns on my I'd sue all of you. I think there is some very poor judgment combined with the arrogance of men being proposed by this "patrol" idea.
#75 Country Boy
on October 27, 2009 at 11:58 p.m.(Snohomish, WA | Unverified Name)
I have been a member of a great group of guys that support conceal carry. Their website is www.seattleguns.net!!!
#76 Glock
on October 28, 2009 at 12:46 a.m.(Mountlake Terrace, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Mr. Luong, you are the shame to the responsible CCW holders!!! You totally don't understand the purpose of legally owning and using the deadly force as a civilian! You will get yourself into trouble. It is just a matter of time. Responsible CCW holders hate you!
#77 Al
on October 28, 2009 at 1:41 a.m.(Redmond, WA | Unverified Name)
"Guns on any campus increase everyone's risk and I hope there is ample enforcement of the no guns on campus statutes."
Are you clumsily asserting that "gun free" zones actually work and then calling people idiots just to be snide, or do you in fact have proof?
PS last time i heard the u-district is not in Denver... former resident, back when crime wasn't so bad?
#78 Harris
on October 28, 2009 at 2:40 a.m.(Silverdale, WA | Unverified Name)
Stanley Luong, my name is Cpl. Harris, USMC. I would like to chat about possibly training you and your friends free of charge. I have over 15 years of handgun marksmanship experiance, 7 years defensive pistol tactics experiance and 3 years of deadly force application and justification training. I would love to share my knowledge with you and your buddies. The cops say they want this to be left to the proffesionals....I agree, let me make you and your friends professionals. Semperfi354@hotmail.com
I have a facebook and a myspace. Let me know
#79 Jeff D.
on October 28, 2009 at 2:51 a.m.(Florence, MS)
Mr. Luong, First I'd like to say that I'm glad to hear your a CCW holder that carries on campus. You've taken the first step in responsibly handling your own safety but it can't stop there. You must now continue that responsibility by seeking good training for yourself.
Without a good continuous training program and plenty of practice you may very well end up a victim with the exception that you provided the weapon, the one that may be turned against you.
I'd like to suggest to you a place that can provide you with the type of training you need. I have taken training here as well and am very impressed with the results. The name of the place is called FrontSight, you can go to their website at www.frontsight.com.
#80 jIM
on October 28, 2009 at 5:25 a.m.(Nahcotta, WA | Unverified Name)
QUESTION: WHY does not the students...going to UW law school areas...take this on and challenge the school authorities. The GUNS are not illegal, only people who rob..and do such mayham. Why not have the legal students, put up as much 'legaL flack'? AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO GAIN A HUGE SCHOOL WIDE AWARENESS. iT IS NOT ABOUT VIGILANTE OR THE LIKE..IT IS ABOUT SELF PRESERVATION. IT IS ABOUT PERSONAL FREEDOMS..IT IS ABOUT BEING A RESPONSIBLE LAW ABIDING CITIZEN. HUH...WHAT A NOTION!
#81 Huh
on October 28, 2009 at 6:28 a.m.(Rolla, MO | Unverified Name)
They can't keep weapons out of prisons. Prisons! The most heavily policed locations in the world!
If you can't keep weapons out of the hands of incarcerated felons, then how in the world do you intend to stop uncaught or would-be felons with a sign that says "weapons not allowed" ???
Banning anything creates a black market. Look at the "War on Drugs". Can't keep that out. The U.S. tried to do the same with alcohol, but ended up repealing the Constitutional Amendment for prohibition. It just doesn't work. It punishes the law abiding.
Maybe this year's follow-ups to DC vs Heller will end this stupidity once and for all. You shouldn't need a permit to carry at all. The criminals certainly don't.
#82 Huh
on October 28, 2009 at 6:30 a.m.(Rolla, MO | Unverified Name)
Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics.
Google for some crime stats in the UK and Australia post their mass disarmament of citizens. Yep, violent crime is on an uncontrollable rise.
Why? Because the bad guys are shooting fish in a barrel.
#83 Huh
on October 28, 2009 at 6:34 a.m.(Rolla, MO | Unverified Name)
Oh, and ... 9mm before 911 ... or maybe better: 1911 before 911.
#84 maxxborist
on October 28, 2009 at 7 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
"Mr. Luong, you are the shame to the responsible CCW holders!!! You totally don't understand the purpose of legally owning and using the deadly force as a civilian! You will get yourself into trouble. It is just a matter of time. Responsible CCW holders hate you!" I agree with Glock. Having a CCW does not make you an officer of the law. This Luong guy is making the perception of having a CCW worst.
#85 Mainer
on October 28, 2009 at 7:02 a.m.(Portsmouth, NH | Unverified Name)
Responding to #39 Anon who said:
"..if you are lobbying for gun rights you don't really have any room to be calling someone paranoid..." "Didn't know The Daily got out to all the hillbillies...."
Because only paranoid hillbillies believe in gun rights ? I'm not trying to get in a spitting contest here, but seriously, if you can't make your point without name calling, you've already lost the argument.
#86 Viet Luu
on October 28, 2009 at 7:09 a.m.(Brooklyn, NY | Unverified Name)
LOL remember that one time when you got your bike stolen and i was being an idiot? actually, i remembering thinking that you'd run into like the bushes, and i'd be on the main path... like they wouldn't catch up to you in the bushes on their bikes, but then.... the could have gotten off their bikes.
i wonder if all that had anything to do with all this...
Maan luc, you have anger issues, you're gonna explode one day and shoot me.
anyways, fuk da police.
#87 Mainer
on October 28, 2009 at 7:18 a.m.(Portsmouth, NH | Unverified Name)
#69 Sean said, "I'm just waiting for one of you genius gun carriers to pop some innocent student on The Ave with a stray shot..."
It's interesting how anti-gun people let their emotions take over in a debate. Sean, you wish that an innocent person gets shot ?
#88 John
on October 28, 2009 at 8:35 a.m.(Atlanta, GA | Unverified Name)
Stanley, I like what you're trying to do but you're being stupid. Carrying a concealed weapon is NOT about taking the law in your own hands. It's about being able to protect yourself and if you go out LOOKING for trouble then you are going to have a hard time proving your case in court. After a defensive shooting there is a good chance you're going to be arrested until they can determine if it was a justified shoot or not. All this talk about taking the law in your own hands and "fishing for robbers" will make it even harder for you to prove your case. A justified shoot means you were in a life threatening situation and had no other alternative.
I would also suggest you get an adequet holster for your sidearm and becareful where you point it. I saw it pointed at someone in the video it looked like
just my $0.02
#89 Dave, Washington State
on October 28, 2009 at 9:11 a.m.(Ellensburg, WA | Unverified Name)
Stanley, coming out of the gate with the name of vigilante describes your group, as taking the law into your own hands; you need to find a better name.
Exercising our rights of Self-Defense by Keeping and Bearing Arms is a very serious endeavor and comes with many responsibilities; ensure you truly know what they are.
To prepare yourself or others for this responsibilities one should embark upon professional training as there are many pitfalls, even the well intended may find themselves loosing their freedom and rights.
Training Schools as The Firearms Academy of Seattle and Insights are excellent, learn the laws and tactics and come away with a working knowledge of the Right of Self Defense and safe use of firearms. http://www.firearmsacademy.com/
http://www.insightstraining.com/westC...
If you have not yet obtained professional training, this will get you started in the right direction for protecting yourself before, during and after a threat.
Ron Schmitt teaches this class in Personal Protection and the Use of Force which is an 8 hours course with the ability to run a few scenarios in a Fire Arms Training Simulator (F.A.T.S.) http://www.themarksman.net/personal_p...
When looking for training, do so in a well-established training school with certified instructors and a training facility to accommodate active training in a safe environment to work on firearms skills of self-defense.
If you want to start a block watch, do so with proper training, equipment, attitude, and presence while working with law enforcement.
A firearm is only a last resort tool when nothing else will stop a threat to life or limb.
#90 Anon
on October 28, 2009 at 9:12 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
"Because only paranoid hillbillies believe in gun rights ? I'm not trying to get in a spitting contest here"
If I lost for namecalling, then I guess you lost for putting words in my mouth? Particularly words I never even hinted at believing (and don't...)
Looking at the first few comments we've got Minnesota, Tennessee, Wyoming, Michigan, Virginia... Just saying it's rather odd to get comments from those states on a UW article.
#91 Mainer
on October 28, 2009 at 9:43 a.m.(Portsmouth, NH | Unverified Name)
OK, let's be fair. Here's the full quote: "My point exactly! Just saying that if you are lobbying for gun rights you don't really have any room to be calling someone paranoid. And to try to use it for your agenda is preposterous.
Didn't know The Daily got out to all the hillbillies until this article showed up."
It's clear you are saying, not hinting, that advocates for gun rights are themselves paranoid. Most reasonable people would consider that insulting. i.e namecalling.
Your other point is risible. Having been called on it, you now argue that "hillbillie" is just, you know, a neutral term for the citizens of Minnesota, Tennessee, Wyoming, Michigan, Virginia...no insult intended. You don't know that hillbillie just might be taken as pejorative ?
I think my point stands, nothing constructive here folks....move along.
#92 David C.
on October 28, 2009 at 3:37 p.m.(Washington, DC)
I used to live in the U District and guess what, it's not a dangerous place at all. Justin, Stanley, etc: Try buyin the homeless kids a slice and they'll watch your back for you. It's cheaper than a gun permit and a lot less likely to end up with somebody shot. And one more thing... don't bring that on campus!! Check out www.studentsforgunfreeschools.org
#93 AntiCitizenOne
on October 28, 2009 at 5:23 p.m.(Richmond, VA | Unverified Name)
you want to verify that claim for us David, coz it sure hasn't worked in Virginia where I go to school.
#94 AntiCitizenOne
on October 28, 2009 at 5:25 p.m.(Richmond, VA | Unverified Name)
oh wait, what happens if your favorite homeless kid is sick, or his buddies aren't available? Can't rely on everyone all the time, you know.
#95 AntiCitizenOne
on October 28, 2009 at 5:31 p.m.(Richmond, VA | Unverified Name)
In other words you're advocating creating an ad-hoc urban neighborhood watch program - any idea how effective neighborhood watch programs are at stopping crime completely, anyone?
#96 AntiCitizenOne
on October 28, 2009 at 5:34 p.m.(Richmond, VA | Unverified Name)
Stanley Luong, I demand you disband your little "patrols" immediately. The permit allows you to protect yourself, loved ones, and the innocent from harm. It does not mean you go out and attempt to proactively stop criminals. You are severely toeing the line with vigilantism and you give idiots like SGFS more fuel for the fire. At least get some training with Gabe Suarez to help you out in your so-called "crusade."
#97 David C.
on October 28, 2009 at 6:43 p.m.(Washington, DC)
AntiCitizenOne, If you want to see what students in your state who survived the VA Tech massacre are doing to make schools safer, check out the following site: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid...
#98 Dave, Washington State
on October 28, 2009 at 7:06 p.m.(Ellensburg, WA | Unverified Name)
I just finished watching you on Q13 news interview and I must say, Stop before you end up dead or in jail for the rest of your lives.
Placing yourself as bait, looking for bad guys to take the law into your own hands, this is not what self defense is about.
You like watching vigilante movies, give me a break! that is not real life, do you really need to be told that?
#99 Jagermann
on October 28, 2009 at 7:28 p.m.(Wenatchee, WA | Unverified Name)
C'mon Dave give Stanley a break... We were all young and invincible at one point in time. I doubt any of the coward criminals around campus will bother him now that they know he is armed anyway. He isn't 100% safe though and the more training he gets the more effective his firearm will become.
#100 Tony, Washington State
on October 28, 2009 at 7:38 p.m.(Marysville, WA | Unverified Name)
For all of the people who rely on the police for protection, here is a clue... They legally are not responsible for your protection. You cannot sue them for not protecting you, for not showing up in your time of need or anything. However, if you are in their custody, then there may be an angle for them being legally responsible for your protection.
Personal protection is just that, a personal responsibility. The current laws in regards to firearms allows us to protect the innocents around us.
I do find that the words chosen, such as 'vigilantes' and 'taking the law into your own hands' to be a poor choice. Both imply that you are not acting within the law, and that is not good.
As many have said, the CCW does not make you a pseudo cop, it does make you a bit less likely to become a victim again. Don't go looking for trouble, there is already enough of it out there.
Be safe, and be responsible..
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