By
Maks Goldenshteyn
October 13, 2009
If you’re a regular reader of The Daily’s sports section, or glance at the Battle Royale from time to time, you may have noticed that a few members of our staff like to pick on the Seattle Sounders.
A lot.
But to be sure, blasting the Sounders on a weekly basis has nothing to do with the sport of soccer itself, even if most U.S. sports fans probably agree that the game is more of an acquired taste.
Most of the world is big on soccer, and that’s fine with us.
Our unrelenting disparagement of the Sounders is instead a commentary on Seattle’s sports fans and perhaps even Seattle culture, with its fixation on the new and the chic, the trendy and the in — and apparently, tie games.
From the perspective of someone who’s watched teams like the Huskies, Mariners, Sonics and Seahawks for years, it’s curious to see how the soccer equivalent of a team belonging to the National Basketball Development League, or an independent baseball league, or one of the countless pro-football leagues that are now defunct, has gained such a large following in its inaugural season.
Also curious is where these so-called sports fans were when the Sonics, the city’s oldest and winningest pro-sports franchise, was essentially handed to Oklahoma City without so much as a peep until it was too late.
Granted, watching the likes of Jelani McCoy, Rick Brunson, Muhammad Sene, Art Long, Shammond Williams, Damien Wilkins, Mike Wilks and Vitaly Potapenko in green and gold during the last decade probably weighed heavily on even the most dedicated of fans.
But, in the defense of those who now call themselves fans of the Sounders, the Sonics didn’t offer pre-game marches, scarves or two-letter acronyms that, when tacked onto the team name, offer a remote speck of legitimacy.
Reach Webcast Manager Maks Goldenshteyn at maksgold@dailyuw.com.
76 Comments
#1 GOALSeattle.com
on October 13, 2009 at 8:37 a.m.(Port Orchard, WA | Unverified Name)
The Sounders have been around in one form or another since 1974. Chic, yes. New? Hardly.
#2 EdwardGr
on October 13, 2009 at 9:13 a.m.(Bremerton, WA | Unverified Name)
So let me get this straight, I am to be chastised as a Sounders fan just because I stopped supporting the Sonics in 1998 during the lockout? Sure I was upset to see them go but lets be honest the team was gone as soon as Bennett and company purchased them. They never had any intent of staying in Seattle, and their 'efforts' to do so consisted only of making demands they knew could never be met in their timetable. Bennett and Co never operated in good faith, the Sonics may have moved at the end of the '08 season, but they were gone two years before.
#3 You Must Be Joking
on October 13, 2009 at 9:27 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
The Sonics were great. I loved them until they sucked consistently under the Schultz ownerships total mismanagement. THey they pulled the old extort the local government routine and it was time for the losers to leave. The Sounders are a great team in a great league. Go bite yourself.
#4 nickj116
on October 13, 2009 at 9:42 a.m.(UW Campus)
"We hate the Sounders because they're hip and new (to MLS) and if these "fans" were genuine, they wouldn't have let the Sonics leave!"
Paraphrasing, of course.
I'm glad they don't pay you very much for this crap, Maks.
#5 Bathos
on October 13, 2009 at 9:53 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
I'm pleased to see The Daily continues to maintain its reputation for iconoclasm and as Seattle independentest news source. I have to admit it never occurred to me to pin the blame for the departure of the Sonics on trend following soccer fans (or should I say sheep fans!), but you’re quite right that if the REAL sports fans of Seattle (who naturally love the Huskies as well!) weren’t so easily distracted by the shiny and new we’d still have the Sonics. After all, nobody ever accused the NBA or NFL of being chic and trendy!
I went to a soccer game once. It was a UW women’s game (of course!) , but I’m sure the experience is exactly the same as in the NASA League or whatever the Sounders are in. Everybody just stood around looking at the field, nobody did the wave (invented by the UW’s very own Don James!! True, look it up on Wiki!), there weren’t any cartoons on the scoreboard, no dancers, and they didn’t play music! That’s not a REAL sport! I don’t remember if it ended in a tie or not, but no American sports games have ever ended in ties. I can’t think of anything more trendy than watching the field. Once the novelty of watching the game wears off, I’m sure we’ll get those “sports” fans back though. Just need to turn the music up louder!
#6 Sonics Still Suck
on October 13, 2009 at 9:57 a.m.(Snohomish, WA | Unverified Name)
Didnt the Sonic's only win one title back in the 70's? And NBA is a dying league anyways.
#7 Maksim
on October 13, 2009 at 10:06 a.m.(Snohomish, WA | Unverified Name)
Maksim is just a 21yr old trying to stir the pot. Just because he was one of the 5,000 fans that wanted the Sonics to stay.
#8 Mr. K
on October 13, 2009 at 10:40 a.m.(Bellevue, WA | Unverified Name)
I hear it's pretty trendy, chic, and in to go to UW Men's basketball games.
#9 COREY
on October 13, 2009 at 10:50 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Sounders aren't the same as other pros...just like the daily sports writers arent the same as real sports writers..
#10 Ben
on October 13, 2009 at 11:29 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Genius! What a great argument!
Soccer is not a genuine sport and the Sounders are to blame for the Sonics leaving Seattle!
First, the Sounders owners are trying really hard for the Fans to bring world premier soccer to Seattle
While your Sonics owners and the NBA owners decided to move the team to Oklahoma City because they didn't care about the fans in the first place and it was more valuable for the team to move to Oklahoma.
Second, soccer is not a real sport. WoW you are blowing my mind. Like I haven't heard that before. I am not even going to argue this because it is so stupid but just to let you and your readers know, The most "American" sport, the beloved NFL has a rule if no team scores in OT then the game ends in a TIE.
Finally, I know this in an editorial but really you have lost all credibility as a journalist since you can't make a good argument and you are writing about something that happen a year ago and can not be changed.
#11 UW-SAE
on October 13, 2009 at 12:32 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Your writing is garbage, stop sulking just because none of the teams you like can amount to anything come gameday.
Sounders kick ass and people love them, get over yourself.
#12 Gio
on October 13, 2009 at 12:32 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
One thing you should know that basketball fans are less violent than soccer ones when you get on their case.
#13 Leo Henton
on October 13, 2009 at 12:34 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Sad to see such a public display of ill-logic, incoherence and ignorance by an allegedly mature university student. Giving the original benefit of doubt would only allow speculation that the original poster / ranter / "journalist" (Maks) was rushing against a deadline on too few hours of sleep or too many beers.
Professionals can meet a publication deadline with a quality project and result.
Professionals, such as the men of Seattle Sounders FC are compensated and pay taxes. Was the original author, Maks compensated for such a poor excuse of an op-ed piece on valuable real estate and bandwidth ? Where was the editor that allowed the poor fool to publicaly humiliate not only himself, but the school ?
Even elementary level logic is infused into all university level course-work. There is a total lack of logic to the original poster's (Maks) rant.
The lack of judgment in allowing publication of such foolishness compounds the error. The fact that the original poster is serious in tone, but without substance or recognition of false assumptions shows that Maks is worse than a troll. Maks is an ignorant troll.
Maks: Do the math. Try to exercise some logic. Read up on the power-structure. Future potential employers are up-to-speed with internet cache's of your published attempts to work. Where do you expect to be in a few years ? Sleeping under the viaduct ?
#14 TheBruin
on October 13, 2009 at 12:39 p.m.(Everett, WA | Unverified Name)
All of you bashing Maks are idiots... All he is saying, is that the MLS is an obsolete league, its not La Liga or the Premier League, its a joke. Shoot its not even a top five league in the world. The sounders would get thrashed all over the field if they played in those leagues.
On the other hand, we had a team in the best basketball league in the world, and few people cared. Is it because soccer is more popular than basketball in the states?? HA!!! Hardly!!! Its because the Sounders are new and cool. The popularity will dwindle as soon as they throw up a couple losing seasons.
#15 @TheBruin
on October 13, 2009 at 12:44 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Maks didn't mention the MLS as a league, he just said Sounders have bandwagon fans.
No we're not La Liga, but if we don't support what we have, the salary cap will never raise to a point where we can compete with the worlds top leagues.
Your team doesn't have to be the best in the world to be the best in your heart... something American sports fans often overlook.
#16 -edit
on October 13, 2009 at 12:48 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
It was my understanding Maks was referring to the USL-1 (the Sounders previous league) when he made the semi pro comment.
#17 James Young
on October 13, 2009 at 2:29 p.m.(Renton, WA | Unverified Name)
Is this really university of Washington sports reporting?
The only meaningful purpose I can derive from this garbage is that there most definitely is a huge demand for quality soccer journalism here in Seattle, and this certainly does not come close to satisfying that. However, this article serves as a nice blueprint for what people do not want to read. An article that has no information and is filled with primitive logic... "Also curious is where these so-called sports fans were when the Sonics, the city’s oldest and winningest pro-sports franchise, was essentially handed to Oklahoma City without so much as a peep until it was too late." If you really think you can even say the team was "essentially handed" to OKC then you sir, are proving that you are an ignorant fool. Sounders fans and Sonics fans are mutually exclusive groups, although many love(d) both teams. You are assuming Sounders took over the role of Sonics fans. Anyone could get this type of information from any drunk dude at a sports bar. Trying to link and NBA team leaving to an MLS team arriving is illogical. Not enough people cared about the Sonics so they have gone to a market that can support them. It is as simple as that. A pro team that people care more about has arrived. A team that is in demand and people are more than willing to speak out about, and do. Measures were taken in the construction of SSFC to ensure that what happened to the Sonics will not happen to the Sounders. That is about the only thing the Sonics and Sounders have in common. Natural selection comes to mind. It is unfortunate that you seem resentful to Sounders fans.
I know there are others like me who demand quality journalism in all aspects, especially regarding our sports teams. Keep trying, I suppose!
#18 Removed
on October 13, 2009 at 3:52 p.m.#19 m
on October 13, 2009 at 3:52 p.m.(Pullman, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
nub
#20 Excuse me?
on October 13, 2009 at 4:08 p.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
This editorial does not even make sense. I thought UW was supposed to be a top tier university (at least that is what their BCC fans tell me), and this is the best it can come up with?
#21 blame bennet & schultz, not the sounders, dumbass!
on October 13, 2009 at 4:46 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
wow! that was the SINGLE-WORST-PIECE-OF-GARBAGE i've ever read in my life!! thanks for wasting 90 seconds of my life i'll never get back. and please, for the love of God, don't EVER go into professional journalisim, because you have absolutely NO talent!
#22 drumline416
on October 13, 2009 at 5:13 p.m.(Spokane, WA | Unverified Name)
bathos you are an f'in idiot.... no real american sports games end in ties.... so are you saying it is absolutely impossible for an nfl or nhl game to end in a tie?
#23 Wtf!
on October 13, 2009 at 5:17 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Rubbish.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I'd rethink your career choice son.
#24 at the bruin
on October 13, 2009 at 5:27 p.m.(Spokane, WA | Unverified Name)
your an idiot too..... how long has those other leagues been around? Please enlighten me if you know so much about REAL FOOTBALL. Mls has been around only 15 years. And do you really expect a team in it's first year to compete against the worlds best? That dumb ass comment is like expecting Grenada to compete against Brazil. Was the nba so great when it started? Don't think so. Oh and no one cared about the Sonics because they sucked... they won one title in how many years as a team? As a USL team the Sounders (team was started in 1994) won 4 league titles, 3 commissioner cups, 3 pac division championships, 2 cascadia cups, and a western conference championship, and in the Mls IN THEIR FIRST SEASON, has already won the US open cup, and will be in the 8 team playoff for the mls title... try that on for size.
#25 slickkill
on October 13, 2009 at 7:04 p.m.(Milton Freewater, OR | Unverified Name)
wow...that was dumb and pathetic, your writing makes me want to smear poop over my eyes, and I'm not just talking about this little diddy, i scrolled through your other articles and I'm amazed your pursuing a career that displays your douche baggery so publicly
#26 Bathos
on October 13, 2009 at 8:59 p.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
@drumline416,
It was a joke son, a funny. Since the "writer" of this little editorial obviously has no awareness of anything prior to 1992, I was making fun of his ignorance regarding ties in professional sports.
Critics of soccer often go on at length about how horrible ties are, forgetting that they were common in just about every US sport except baseball.
I wasn't really agreeing with him, just in case you're still confused.
#27 Haha
on October 13, 2009 at 10:08 p.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
Epic fail.
#28 drumline416
on October 13, 2009 at 10:28 p.m.(Spokane, WA | Unverified Name)
ok thank you... my fault then
#29 expected better
on October 13, 2009 at 10:31 p.m.(Denver, CO | Unverified Name)
Some of us have been Sounders fans since we were old enough to ride Metro to Memorial Stadium... the new publicity and financing that came with the move to MLS has simply opened more fans' eyes to an incredible team and community that have been around for decades.
And even Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_i...) more fairly assesses the success of MLS considering how recently it was established in a market already full of big-budget spectator sports.
Whether or not it's the case, this editorial gives the impression that the author has no appreciable insight into soccer culture in the Pacific Northwest. I'm sure there are many valid reasons to criticize Seattleites and the Sounders, but they were not presented here.
#30 Yom T.
on October 14, 2009 at 12:15 a.m.(UW Campus)
"Our unrelenting disparagement of the Sounders is instead a commentary on Seattle’s sports fans and perhaps even Seattle culture, with its fixation on the new and the chic, the trendy and the in — and apparently, tie games."
NFL games can end in ties. According to your logic, the Seahawks also suck.
"From the perspective of someone who’s watched teams like the Huskies, Mariners, Sonics and Seahawks for years, it’s curious to see how the soccer equivalent of a team belonging to the National Basketball Development League, or an independent baseball league, or one of the countless pro-football leagues that are now defunct, has gained such a large following in its inaugural season."
Nice run-on sentence. Anyways, your statement implies that MLS, like the NBDL or minor league baseball, is not the highest level of competition of its sport in the United States. This is incorrect. MLS is the highest level of soccer in the US. I'm not sure how this makes it equivalent to a minor league.
"Also curious is where these so-called sports fans were when the Sonics, the city’s oldest and winningest pro-sports franchise, was essentially handed to Oklahoma City without so much as a peep until it was too late."
You have no evidence that Sounders fans did not resist the Sonics' move to OKC. This is a complete lie. Also, basketball is a completely different sport from soccer, and therefore there is no real reason why a soccer fan should necessarily support a basketball team.
"Granted, watching the likes of Jelani McCoy, Rick Brunson, Muhammad Sene, Art Long, Shammond Williams, Damien Wilkins, Mike Wilks and Vitaly Potapenko in green and gold during the last decade probably weighed heavily on even the most dedicated of fans."
You did not even mention the political consequences of building a multi-billion dollar arena, which was the biggest factor in their departure, second only to the idiocy of the Sonics' front office.
"But, in the defense of those who now call themselves fans of the Sounders, the Sonics didn’t offer pre-game marches, scarves or two-letter acronyms that, when tacked onto the team name, offer a remote speck of legitimacy."
Earth to Goldenshteyn: I'm not sure if senselessly mocking a popular franchise is going to help your prospects for post-college employment as a sports journalist, if that's what you're going for.
#31 Yom T.
on October 14, 2009 at 12:20 a.m.(UW Campus)
I almost forgot. You expected Sounders fans to support the Thunder - I mean Sonics - but you, as a Sonics fan, publicly denounce the Sounders. Doesn't this make you a hypocrite?
#32 Safety School
on October 14, 2009 at 7:41 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Slinging insults is so much fun. What is it about sports desks that they all want to be pundits? Is this what UW journalism school is cranking out these days? You're all set for the blogging world at least, and I hear Jim Rome is hiring...
#33 reasoning 101
on October 14, 2009 at 8:46 a.m.(Redmond, WA | Unverified Name)
You're ignoring the most important thing here:
soccer =/ basketball.
#34 drumline416
on October 14, 2009 at 10:05 a.m.(Spokane, WA | Unverified Name)
DOWN WITH JIM ROME.... that guy is the biggest douchebag ever, im glad he got his ass kicked on his own show.
#35 Dylan
on October 14, 2009 at 10:34 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
The article wasn't about the Sonics. There was one sentence, and he countered it himself.
Of all these responses, very few of them even assess the sentiment of the article. I don't think the negative responses even understood the article, judging from their responses.
And while the Seahawks technically could finish a game with a tie, it has not happened in the team's history and isn't likely to happen either (there have been 4 ties in the NFL since 1990).
Sounds to me that Sounders fans are a little insecure. Rather than defend their love for a sport/team, they just attack the person who questioned their legitimacy.
#36 Removed
on October 14, 2009 at 10:38 a.m.#37 Bathos
on October 14, 2009 at 12:23 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
@drumline416
No worries!
@Dylan,
Not about the Sonics? I admit it is pretty difficult to figure out what the essay IS about, but how about we summarize the paragraphs?
1. We hate the Sounders.
2. Nonsensical two word "paragraph".
3. While we don't understand why the rest of the world likes soccer, our main problem is with the Sounders.
4. Another pointless "paragraph".
5. We don't like the Sounders because we hate Sounders fans.
6. MLS is inferior to all other sports. Mention of Sonics.
7. Sounders fans didn't save the Sonics by going to Sonics games.
8. Wrister displays in depth knowledge of Sonics by listing Sonics players.
9. Sonics didn't do lame things, unlike Sounders.
It seems pretty obvious that the sentiment of this story is the Sonics, with supporting secondary subjects on why the Sounders fans are a) inferior to the Sonics and b) responsible for the Sonics leaving.
It would be pointless for Sounders fans to "defend their love for a sport/team". First of all, I could care less what you, Maks, or anybody else thinks about soccer or the Sounders. You are more than welcome to hate soccer, the MLS, and the Sounders and I won't waste a second of thought trying to pursuade you otherwise. Secondly, you won't find people defending their love of the Sounders because that wasn't what the "sentiment" of the article was about. Most posters (with the brilliant exception of #36 above) are refuting Maks' premises and his very flawed conclusions.
#38 Removed
on October 14, 2009 at 4:42 p.m.#39 JB
on October 14, 2009 at 6:24 p.m.(Tacoma, WA | Unverified Name)
The Sonics also played basketball, which I have never played myself and have always found boring to watch. I grew up playing soccer and I've watched MLS for years, even without the inducement of scarves.
So anyway, you're a douche-bag and you're missing out and you'd probably be happier if you moved to Oklahoma. So go already.
#40 abinosounder
on October 14, 2009 at 10:54 p.m.(Elma, WA | Unverified Name)
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Quite frankly, I'd love to hear this guys opinion......especially as it relates to the feminine hygiene products he uses. Gotta smell good for the guys. I doubt that he's researched the feminine hygiene products, and why they work they way they do. Much like he failed to understand the passion behind the fan support for Sounders FC. If the Sounders were truly "Chic and trendy", then you'd see a bunch of fans sitting on their arses, instead of standing and screaming for the entire match.
Actually it's good that he wrote the article. Little boys need to learn their lessons, and gain wisdom. An excellent learning experience.
I'm very disappointed in the University of Washington and any editor that may have been involved. Is this the best your students have to offer after studying at your "university"? Where's the research? Why doesn't the writer understand the passion? Did he attend any matches? Did he actually speak with any fans?
College life is great. Drink a bunch of beer, make up some crap, and see what will stick.
#41 Wendell Gee
on October 14, 2009 at 10:54 p.m.(Darmstadt, Germany | Unverified Name)
The Sounders are a soccer equivalent to the PAC Ten. You conveniently cite the National Basketball Development League, so as not to draw attention to the fact that you cite the Huskies, who are directly comparable.
If you want to be a real journalist when you grow up, you'd best be prepared to back up all of what you say when you call people out like you do here.
#42 Abinosounder
on October 14, 2009 at 11:39 p.m.(Elma, WA | Unverified Name)
By the way, I've decided not to renew my season tickets for the Huskies. I will not help to support a "university", that allows an author to publicly make an ass out of himself, and more importantly the region in which I live.
Perhaps he should follow the Sonics to Oklahoma City? The NBA is primarily made out of gang members and criminals. Have you ever noticed all of the gang tattoos? Half the league has anger management problems, and legal issues. Perhaps that is the atmosphere that is more conducive to credible writing? Go on "Maks", be the beat writer for the Sonics in Oklahoma City. You will not be missed here, or by any potential future employers in this area. Give someone else a shot at your current school. There's no way they could equal your ineptitude. Unless of course it was "Chic and Trendy", to follow an obtuse writer that has no clue as to why a franchise has passionate followers.
The University of Washington will be much better in your absence.
#43 Dave
on October 15, 2009 at 4:13 p.m.(San Francisco, CA | Unverified Name)
If the Sounders are so great, then WHERE WERE ALL THE SOCCER FANS LAST YEAR!? There was a USMNT match played at Qwest Field on the Fourth of July, and only 15,000 bothered to show up. Seattle is the soccer poseur capital of the world.
#44 jed
on October 15, 2009 at 5:52 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
"If the Sounders are so great, then WHERE WERE ALL THE SOCCER FANS LAST YEAR!?"
they were in the USL which is level below MLS...which according to some posts here, would put it equivalent to a summer Single/Class A league baseball team vs the Mariners. How many fans attend those games?
"There was a USMNT match played at Qwest Field on the Fourth of July, and only 15,000 bothered to show up. Seattle is the soccer poseur capital of the world."
-Um, they were waiting for a team to play a quality opponent, not an American C-Team play Grenada. I believe 65,000 people watched their Sounders play Chelsea two weeks later.
...dave.is.a.sourgrapes.earthquakes.fan.me.thinks...
#45 Yom T.
on October 15, 2009 at 6:13 p.m.(UW Campus)
Dave, that's like saying why don't 45,000 people show up at Tacoma Rainier games if people love baseball
#46 Dave
on October 16, 2009 at 8:26 a.m.(San Francisco, CA | Unverified Name)
@Jed - I know what USL is... Montreal, Rochester, Portland, Vancouver, Carolina, Puerto Rico, Charleston, Minnesota... All are USL teams that had better attendance than Seattle in 2007 and 2008.
Also, the Chelsea match was included in your season tickets... Support what's chic, but not support your country? You won't support your minor league team, but you'll jump on the bandwagon once the big show comes to town? We call that "FAIR WEATHER"
#47 foobar
on October 16, 2009 at 9:21 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Don't feed the troll (the author). That is the point if this "Op-Ed" .
#48 Yom T.
on October 16, 2009 at 3:44 p.m.(UW Campus)
Dave, I don't understand the argument that if you like the Sounders, then you must support all soccer activity in the city.
Being a fan of a specific team doesn't require supporting other teams that play in the same city. Would you expect New York Mets fans to be New York Yankee fans?
Why should a Sounders fan go to a USMNT if the Sounders aren't playing?
#49 @Dave
on October 16, 2009 at 4:34 p.m.(Bellevue, WA | Unverified Name)
There are only 22k (maybe 24k?) Sounders season ticket holders.
65k - 24k = 41k fans came to the Chelsea game that didn't have season tickets.
#50 Taylor Soper
on October 16, 2009 at 4:35 p.m.(Ferndale, WA | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Dave,
When MLS comes to Portland and Vancouver in 2011, and their team fan base explodes, will you try to make the same argument? Fact is, people want to see higher-level athletes and teams. The average sports fan won't really want to see a USL match, but if there are higher-quality athletes playing with more on the line, it makes for more excitement.
Point is, the Sounders are playing very well for their first year in town. Games are a completely different experience than your average M's or Hawks game. It's fun. People like it. I don't see why this is so bad.
#51 TexMex
on October 17, 2009 at 8:57 a.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
If I had a dime for every hack that tied the Sonic's destruction to the Sounder's new birth, I'd have at least 3 dollars.
What infuriates me about this hack's premise is the Sonic's demise is not the fault of the fans - not one iota. To suggest that it is, (even partially) is an insult to this town, and if you accept his premise, you have to then believe Seattle lost the Sonics due to the nature of the sports fans and the community as a whole.
What it really boils down to is the success of MLS in this town seems to make some Sonic fans bitter. Indeed, I'd suggest that if the Sonics were still here, the Sounders would have more fans - not less, simply because some die-hard Sonic fans see them as a poor replacement to their old beloved team and can't get past that. I know a handful myself, that just seem to resent the fact that the Sounders thrived, right at the time they lost their favorite franchise.
What I think is a much more viable topic for an editorial is: why are smart men like Leiweke and Roth lining up to invest in a league, that this hack claims is equal to just an "A league" in baseball? Yet, at the same time, other "larger" sports, are having problems with franchise stability and finding investors. Even soccer in the "bigger leagues" are suffering financial problems right when this alleged bush-league is growing and perhaps even leading the way in terms of how to manage the sport responsibly.
The Sounders thrive, because the tickets are fairly priced, the product is fun to watch, the venue is first-rate and the experience is unique and combines both an International flavor with a disticntly local flare. The Sounders are a sharp product, exhibiting one of the oldest, simplest and greatest games mankind has ever invented. Their success isn't a reflection at all, of the tragic circumstances of the Sonics.
Don't hate the Sounders because the NBA gave our city the shaft; hate the NBA, hate their lying, duplicitous commissioner and the lying, scandalous owner that never had any intention of staying in Seattle from the moment he signed the check to buy the Sonics.
#52 Adam
on October 17, 2009 at 3:23 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
To all the commenters: All you Op-Ed piece haters who come out in full-force with unbridled dismay... where WERE you when the Seattle PI folded? Can't you spare a dime to read this in an actual newspaper? I can't believe you hate this article so much, yet you wouldn't even buy a part of the long-fabled tradition of Seattle! And now you support the Sounders?!
Communists!
Good work on getting hits though. To borrow from the old SAT-- UW Daily : PI :: Sounders : Sonics... represented by which has folded and number of hits today. Hmmm. Look like we both win!
#53 Orcasite
on October 17, 2009 at 8:13 p.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
Did it ever occur to you that some people have a different opinion about what sport is interesting or fun to follow? The notion that Sounders' fans are desperate Sonics' fans or trend-followers is one of the most idiotic one I've heard. The people we've met at Sounders' games really know and love soccer. None has been pining for NBA thrills. I personally think watching a bunch of 7' guys running back and forth to hang off a basket is boring. (I still enjoy some "college" basketball, though the notion that those players are "college students" is laughable.) As for the USMNT game last July, we've travelled far and wide to support the USMNT, including Mexico City and the World Cup in Germany, but USSF gave Seattle another meaningless, cr*p game--not worth the ferry and two hours each way on the I-5 during construction. It would help to learn something about soccer if you're going to attempt to make a career out of blathering about it--oh, wait, that's not necessary--look at Jim Rome.
#54 @Daves #43
on October 17, 2009 at 9:05 p.m.(None, None | Unverified Name)
Dumbass. If you read over your own comment, you have an answer to your own question; the game was played on July 4th, a holiday. Personally, I went to that game as I saw it was perfect for a July 4th celebration, but many stayed home because they were busy with fireworks and what not. It was also the United States B team playing Grenada (a notoriously poor team), and everybody knew this, leading to the lack of publicizing.
#55 Ian
on October 17, 2009 at 11:34 p.m.(Olympia, WA | Unverified Name)
a fair observation for the most part. Where were these people when the Sounders were in the minor leagues? Either way, you just can't knock people for being more attracted to a more legit product. That's just human nature.
However, soccer, like you said, is an acquired taste. people wouldn't show up to games if they didn't like soccer. and for an ownership group to care for the fans as much as they do, there's every reason to be excited about the Sounders right now.
#56 nickj116
on October 17, 2009 at 11:39 p.m.(None, None | UW Community)
Hey Maks! The Sounders just made the playoffs. Just fyi there, chief.
#57 Jamaal B.
on October 18, 2009 at 11:02 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
I have to say that I'm still surprised and shocked at people's ignorance towards soccer ( my friends included). I mean really? You would think we were talking about the Portland or Pittsburgh Sounders here.... Just because you don't understand or don't like a sport or anything for that matter, what gives you the right to degrade its supporters and blast the sport?? Last time I checked, the Sounders were a SEATTLE sports team.... and I support ALL of my SEATTLE sports teams. I've been a fan of soccer for years, mainly the the english premier league ( Manchester United) but enjoy watching most games. I admit that when I first started watching it though I didn't really understand it but I had an open mind and wanted to learn the game. Oh yeah and the Sounders just made the playoffs in their 1st season, when's the last time any other Seattle sports team has made the playoffs other than the Seahawks in the last 8 years?? How bout a little love? Are some people scared of success or a well run organization? Maks I've got to say that I'm ashamed to call you a Husky. For those of you naysayers out there that are under the impression that every soccer game ends in a tie or is just not exciting I would challenge you to learn about it. MY girlfriend hates football too and thinks it's boring but she has no idea what's going on.... sound familiar, but guess what? I'm EXPLAINING the game to her and she's actually starting to enjoy watching the games with me now the she is beginning to UNDERSTAND the sport. I'm a diehard Seahawks fan and am also still broken hearted about the Sonics... it makes me sick! Kinda like that bulls*** Husky game last night... So that being said, GO HAWKS, GO HUSKIES, GO M's, GO SONICS( we miss you), and most of all GO SOUNDERS!! Thank you for a great season and I can't wait to cheer you on along with the rest of the 12th man at QWEST after you win your first round playoff game and for the first time in your first year bring the MLS playoffs to Soccertown USA!
#58 Felix
on October 19, 2009 at 8:48 p.m.(San Juan, Puerto Rico | Unverified Name)
Wow its awesome to read the responses of the Seattle natives supporting their Sounders. No reason in hell to bash the Sounders, even in a twisted and convoluted way, it is not right! Sounders have one of my all time favorite soccer players in Freddie Ljunberg, the man kicks ass in every game, it's almost a promise!
#59 beamish
on October 20, 2009 at 12:52 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
you complete and utter tool...
we don't follow those other teams because we don't give a shit about the sports they play. we don't need to hang out in bars where there's five different sporting events on tv.
We fucking LOVE soccer. you're a douche.
#60 fusillade
on October 20, 2009 at 4:24 p.m.(Encino, CA | Unverified Name)
Maks,
It is troubling that you and “a few members” of your staff feel comfortable insulting the entire Seattle sports fan base by expressing your opinion that they are fixated “on the new and the chic, the trendy and the in.” I also find it revealing that you have failed to appreciate the effective disenfranchisement campaign that the Clay Bennett Sonics employed to escape Seattle. You have equally ignored the open arms approach of the Sounders ownership group and the loyal soccer fans that exist in Seattle – one of the hot beds for Soccer in the US.
You asked, “Where were these so-called sports fans were when the Sonics, the city’s oldest and winningest pro-sports franchise, was essentially handed to Oklahoma City without so much as a peep until it was too late?” Answer: Clay Bennett intentionally divorced them. At the same time the MLS franchise was making all the right moves. Even when they made an error by not including the name Sounders from the options of FC, Republic, and Alliance they quickly fixed that omission.
The Seattle fan base didn’t abandon the Sonics, however the overall citizenry of Seattle and the state of Washington were and continue to be burnt out on funding sports arenas and stadiums. In 1996 the renovation of Key Arena was completed ($74.5M). In 1999 Safeco Field opened ($517.6M). In 2002 Qwest Field followed ($430M). The renovated Key Arena opened 10/26/96. On 03/22/02 Howard Stern stated that Key Arena was, “a good arena,” yet Stern added, "I think when the team's lease is up in 2010, it won't be as new and as modern as it was when it was reconfigured, and the team will have to make (a decision).” At that time the renovated arena was only five years, five months and twenty-six days old!
The MLS has an economic model allows teams to have an opportunity to turn a profit. The NBA has an economic model that relies on government funded entitlements (publicly funded arenas) just to meet player salaries. I give the Seattle fans some credit for saying that an NBA arena should remain unquestionably viable long after six years of opperation.
Finally, in your last jab at the Seattle sports fan you quipped, “the Sonics didn’t offer pre-game marches, scarves or two-letter acronyms that, when tacked onto the team name, offer a remote speck of legitimacy.” José Miguel Romero of the Seattle Times recently reported that the Sounders FC in their inaugural year are being recognized around the Europe as a quality Football Club, so it would appear that the two-letter acronym represents more than a remote speck of legitimacy.
Your article is deeply flawed and intentionally insults Seattle sports fans that are conceivably a significant segment of your readership. It reflects poorly on you; Christian Caple, Sports Editor; and Casy Smith Editor-in-Chief in all of you allowed a flawed, insulting editorial to be published.
#61 This for real?
on October 22, 2009 at 12:27 a.m.(Belton, MO | Unverified Name)
Truly garbage article, author should aim for different career!!!!!
#62 Maks Hedrüüm
on October 25, 2009 at 10:08 p.m.(Kent, WA | Unverified Name)
Just curious...when someone attempts to be a sportswriter, and they don't quite make it. Where do they end up?
#63 Jim Rome
on October 26, 2009 at 12:43 a.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
I currently hold all copyrights on any idiotic anti-soccer articles or rants. If you continue to steal my gimmick, I will be forced to have my lawyers contact you with a cease and desist order.
#64 Peddy
on October 27, 2009 at 3:50 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name | UW Community)
Your writing sucks.. you suck more though.
#65 Eric E
on October 28, 2009 at 9:49 a.m.(Brooklyn, NY | Unverified Name)
Thank you Maks. Everyone angry with you is in denial. Seattle is a complete bandwagon city and the Sounders are a great example.
Anyone who goes to Starbucks before watching a Sounders game is at fault for the Sonics leaving. I'm mostly kidding, but there is truth in that.
#66 206er
on October 28, 2009 at 11:30 a.m.(Denver, CO | Unverified Name | UW Community)
i'm actually glad someone has the guts to publicly question this sounders craziness. the truth is there are not many seattle sports fans who have the resolve to stick with their team through thick and thin and the sounders are a perfect example of that. "sounders til i die" chants are stupid because when the team slides seattle fans will jump ship. i have become so enamored with the sonics and huskies because they are the only teams in the state with a track record of success and a proud tradition. i love a gelani mccoy reference. if shows me someone else cares about the good times and bad times. and snobby sounders fans have the ignorance to claim the that sonics have been "replaced" by soccer. the sounders have NOTHING but scarves and one honeymoon season.and on a national scale NO ONE CARES ABOUT MLS!
#67 Soccer>*
on October 28, 2009 at 11:35 a.m.(Location Unknown | Unverified Name)
Mariners -- Suck
Sonics -- Suck(ed)
Huskies -- Suck
Sounders -- DO NOT SUCK
Soccer is the worlds game, there is a reason throwball hasn't caught on with the rest of the world. Sure its fun to watch but the amount of athleticism, strategy, and discipline required is FAR below that of soccer. You don't see fat soccer players, and you dont see professional soccer players getting wrapped up with gun charges, dog fighting, dui's, or any of that other stuff that tarnishes the game.
Just because you have a computer does NOT make you a sports writer.
#68 sonics4life
on October 28, 2009 at 11:52 a.m.(Kirkland, WA | Unverified Name)
his point is that the MLS is not the best players in the world. the best soccer players play in europe, the second best play in south america. the MLS is a third-tier league at best.
plus soccer sux anyway. in the words of Sherman Alexie: "You can tie! TIE! It's like third-grade T-ball or something."
#69 Farty McGee FC
on October 28, 2009 at 4:26 p.m.(Graham, WA | Unverified Name)
Soccer is gay. And there is something wrong with that.
#70 George Karl
on October 28, 2009 at 9:04 p.m.(Kent, WA | Unverified Name)
Go Sounders!
#71 Farty McGee FC
on October 29, 2009 at 1:22 a.m.(Graham, WA | Unverified Name)
Pt. 2
Soccer>* says: "You don't see fat soccer players, and you dont see professional soccer players getting wrapped up with gun charges, dog fighting, dui's, or any of that other stuff that tarnishes the game."
racism
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/sto...
players vs. fans in stands
http://www.insideworldsoccer.com/2009...
fans
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foot...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spor...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/socc...
http://www.examiner.com/a-2291245~Eng...
even the owners
http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04...
Now, that is some squeaky clean sport ya got there, Soccer>*!!! Tell me again how soccer is as precious and angelic as you believe.
Just because you have a computer does NOT make you knowledgeable. In fact, in your case its just the opposite.
#72 Farty McGee FC
on October 29, 2009 at 1:26 a.m.(Graham, WA | Unverified Name)
Well there was a ton more links in my Pt. 1 but it refuses to post. Lame.
#73 Farty McGee FC
on October 29, 2009 at 1:28 a.m.(Graham, WA | Unverified Name)
Pt. 1 (reposting again since it failed 3 times)
Soccer>* says: "You don't see fat soccer players, and you dont see professional soccer players getting wrapped up with gun charges, dog fighting, dui's, or any of that other stuff that tarnishes the game."
What a tool you are, Soccer>*. Your view of the soccer world is typical of the elitists who not only run Seattle but drool over soccer. Guess what? Your crap does stink. Found this in just a few minutes of searching. Think ANY OF THIS OTHER STUFF tarnishes the game?
#74 Farty McGee FC
on October 29, 2009 at 1:39 a.m.(Graham, WA | Unverified Name)
So it won't take my links for Pt. 1 but took them for Pt. 2. Great page!
Just know that I had about 30 links to the gun charges, dog fighting, dui's, and other things that tarnish the game.
All of which Soccer>* claims do not exist.
#75 Tim O'Donnell
on October 29, 2009 at 4:14 p.m.(Olympia, WA | Unverified Name)
I like the Sounders because they are enjoyable to watch play the beautiful game. You and Jim Rome may despise it but it is no reason to disparage those that do.
The Sonics left town because the NBA financial model is broken. Cities like Seattle are going to refuse to build overpriced arenas that few of its citizens will ever view a sporting event in. Within the next ten years NBA teams like the Thunder will be wandering around looking for the next small city that is chump enough to pony up 500 million for an arena.
#76 nickj116
on October 31, 2009 at 3:09 p.m.(None, None | UW Community)
These Sounders haters have never even been to a game, so to call us bandwagon fans or whatever is so illogical. This year, every game was sold out. Next year, every game will be sold out. As will the following year after year after year. The owners didn't bring a team to Seattle to see it fail. They will continue to bring the right players to the club, and the fans will continue to show up to beautiful Qwest to watch the Sounders, who will be looked back upon as the one team that changed the face of soccer in America forever.
But keep hating.
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