By
Celeste Gracey,
Natalie Sikavi,
Zakariya Dehlawi
April 23, 2008
Do interfaith dialogues actually work?
Zakariya Dehlawi -
Asking whether “interfaith dialogues actually work” is kind of a foolish question. Interfaith dialogue itself is an open definition. Heck, what does “work” mean in this context? Regardless of definition games, I think it’s extremely important.
First off, interfaith dialogue covers a wide range of activities. I consider Muslims and Christians volunteering together at a soup kitchen interfaith dialogue, as much as sitting at meeting tables and discussing the similarities between their religions. It isn’t constrained to formal activities — my random conversations with lab partners also count.
First, we need to be clear on the intention of the dialogue. If both sides have the idea that their purpose is to convert the other, you’re not going to get very far. You end up with two parties that are convinced they’re right, which isn’t conducive to conversation, or even conversion for that matter. I think it’s rather rare that you can persuade someone to convert based on your brilliant and analytical arguments. Only God chooses whom to guide.
When interfaith dialogues are a tool for conversion, they don’t work, but I don’t believe that’s their purpose. Interfaith dialogue should be used to dispel misconceptions and more importantly, generate understanding among people. The intention of an interfaith dialogue should be to seek an understanding of another’s beliefs. Once you know what someone holds dear, the better to empathize and respect it.
We should remember that dialogue is a two-way street. If someone is not open to understanding, or even is hostile to the other, than there really is no point. The Quran addresses this type of situation by saying, “You shall have your religion, and I shall have my religion” (Chapter 109, verse 6).
Provided the purpose of dialogue is for mutual understanding, the question to whether interfaith dialogue actually works, I can offer an emphatic “yes.” I personally have witnessed people transform their opinions and drop stereotypes through the most innocuous of activities. The wife of a friend of mine is from Iraq, and she had never met a Jewish person. She was actually intimidated by the idea. But after a single positive interaction, she realized she had nothing to fear.
I have a lot of experience with interfaith activities, and I find them to be extremely rewarding. Some of my earliest work was with “Together We Build,” an interfaith coalition that builds houses for Habitat for Humanity. There’s nothing like building scaffolding with someone to get to know them better.
I think everyone should get involved in interfaith dialogue, even nonreligious types. It really is a broadening experience, personally as well as for the other person. And isn’t that why we’re at college, to expand our minds and broaden ourselves (and make loads of fat cash upon graduation)? It’s especially important for Muslims to be involved, because face it — we have a lot of stereotypes to dispel.
There are many opportunities out there for interfaith work. On campus, the Muslim Students Association would be happy to talk about cooperative activities. We already have done work with Hillel, and are open to more ideas and organizations.
One of my best experiences was as a faith leader for the annual Puget Sound Interfaith Youth Camp. It’s a truly multi-faith experience, with more than just the Abrahamic religions. Kids really learn the value of respect and understanding. The camp is looking for counselors. If you’re interested, or know young folk who might want to be campers, look up the camp.
I like interfaith dialogue, and I think we should all do more of it, if only to progress humanity’s overall understanding of itself.
Celeste Flint -
Compassion is neat.
While I don’t disagree, I don’t think a serial killer awaiting his execution would, either.
Last week during the Seeds of Compassion conference, the Dalai Lama’s presence led to an interfaith dialogue that discussed the value of compassion and tried to define it.
While some religious groups may find these dialogues encouraging, they’re based on a complete misunderstanding of religion.
Interfaith conversations shouldn’t be able to work, because each faith comes with an entirely different worldview and frame of reference.
For example, in a dialogue about suffering, some declare it’s the ultimate problem of the world, while others say we should let karma be.
Yet many people found the recent Seeds of Compassion engagement a success.
Aside from the Dalai Lama, the only leaders on the panel I recognized have such liberal and heretical theologies that some Christians question if they’re Christians at all.
Pastor Rob Bell, whom I assume was meant to be the Protestant Christian representative, said he believes in compassion “because it’s the only way.”
Sounds hokey to me.
Christians don’t believe in compassion because it’s nice or because people deserve it. On the contrary, free compassion is incredibly unmerited, and people don’t “deserve” it.
However, Christians should be the most compassionate of all, because Jesus has given us complete forgiveness for our mistakes, offering the same to those who would believe in him.
Our gratitude should compel us to always pay compassion forward.
Seeing how Bell fluffed his way through the event, it’s not careless to assume that many participating in the dialogues have similarly watered-down beliefs. Only two things can come of this.
The first is nothing, because the participants aren’t honest about their beliefs. The second is nothing, because their beliefs are so far from universal truth or value.
Interfaith dialogues look at how certain values show up consistently in different religions. Those consistencies are then accepted as universal truths. This happened at the Seeds of Compassion event when the speakers came to the conclusion that compassion is “good.”
Christians in particular shouldn’t be able to function within interfaith dialogues because the dialogues work from the acceptance of Oneism. This means that people, the environment, society, religion, God and everything co-exist in one “circle of life.”
Instead, Christians believe in Twoism. This proposes that God is unchanging, perfect and sovereign, and therefore isn’t affected by anything. Imagine two circles, one for Jesus and one for everything else. Truth therefore isn’t what we agree on; it’s what God has already determined.
“We strive [for] looking at the other person in a spirit of holy envy,” said Dr. Ingrid Mattson, the Muslim representative of the event.
I loathe this statement, because it’s all about the good humanity hopes to do, and it has nothing to do with the goodness God has already accomplished.
Natalie Sikavi -
For the first five years of my life, a Muslim woman named Soraya lived in my home and helped my parents raise me. She is the kindest, most genuine person I have ever known, and I attribute many of my own virtues to her teaching. To this day, she still calls me dokhtaram, which, in Persian, means “my daughter.” Living with Soraya, I learned the key to interfaith dialogue — respecting other people’s beliefs. There may be qualms about people voicing their beliefs in different things, but the way I see it, the problems arise from the way people act on those differences.
One of the most famous instances of interfaith dialogue can be found in the 13th century: the Disputation of Barcelona, an event where King James I of Aragon summoned the great scholar Nachmanides and Friar Pablo Christiani to debate their faiths before a large audience. Though he was given a reward by the king for his performance, Nahmanides was forced to leave the country because of the church’s anger. Pope Clement IV sought to punish the rabbi for his defense of Judaism.
But that was nearly 800 years ago.
Today, in the United States, we are privileged to have rights such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I have the freedom to write about Judaism in this paper, and alongside me are two other columnists that have the right to express their beliefs as well.
Today is much different than the Spain of 1263, and I’m thankful for that. I love the opportunity to have friends of different faiths and to be exposed to different traditions. Oftentimes, I find that I have a lot in common with people who aren’t Jewish and I like discussing our similarities as well as our differences.
What I don’t agree with is the mixing of faiths to create a “new” religion. As much as I loved watching Seth Cohen for his three seasons on The O.C., the idea of “Chrismukkah” made me cringe.
Hanukkah is a Jewish holiday with a miraculous story behind it. Christmas too is sacred to Christian people. Fusing together two completely unrelated holidays simply because they fall in the same month distorts both traditions and leads to a bad kind of assimilation.
Interfaith dialogues should be about understanding and learning to accept one another. But dialogues should not be about trying to unify different people into one entity at all costs. Just as I learned from Soraya, I respect other people’s practices and so I also expect them to respect mine.
11 Comments
#1 Pascal
on April 23, 2008 at 8:31 a.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name)
Celeste,
If God is immutable truth, then shouldn't human society in some sense converge toward a general realization of that truth? I assume that God's truth is supposed to be stronger than any physical force, and that humans are inherently tuned to it on some deep level. Then why don't we all align with this truth like compass needles?
Maybe it's just a slow process, and maybe we don't have perfect communication with the divine. You believe in two circles: Jesus in one and us in the other. The only link between the two is the Bible, but that was written by people, translated by people, etc. What if something got mixed up along the way?
One way to encode a message through a noisy or unreliable channel is with sheer redundancy; then the receiving end can average out the noise and look for what is similar among multiple transmissions. Perhaps you're missing potentially powerful truths buried within the creeds of other religions.
Why can't spiritual understanding be a process? I'll grant you the possible existence of some sort of "universal truth," but how can you prove that you have exclusive possession of that truth? The only empirical evidence for universality is convergence across cultures and across time. Otherwise your claim to universal truth is not falsifiable, and therefore meaningless.
#2 JP
on April 23, 2008 at 4:37 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Pascal,
Have you ever looked into the accuracy of the Bible? It is the most reliable document in human history.
I'll put it into perspective. Do you trust that Homer's Iliad is reliable and in the same words as when Homer wrote it in around 850 BC? How about Plato and Aristotle? Most of us have been taught that it is perfectly acceptable to view these works as historically reliable. This may very well be true. However, it is important to look at the number of earliest copies that exist today and the time span between those copies and the original.
For example, we have only 7 early manuscripts from Plato and 5 from Aristotle. The earliest of Plato's manuscripts was written around 1,300 years after the original. The time gap for Aristotle's manuscripts is about 1,400 years. Now, Homer's Iliad has more copies (643 copies), but we do not know when they were written or what the time gap is between the original and the manuscripts.
If you compare these manuscripts to the Bible, then there is no competition whatsoever. The quantity and quality of the New Testament manuscripts is unparalleled in ancient literature. The New Testament was written in 60 AD. This was only around three decades after Christ's death and resurrection. The earliest copy we have is from around 130 AD (less than 100 years after), and we have around 14,000 early manuscripts. Many historians have also checked the translations from the original and have found that the only mis-translations involve minute grammatical details that do not cause any doubt or contention with any theological issues. Just to give you an example, the difference would be "to the store went he" vs. "he went to the store."
Lastly, I agree that it is extremely important to respect one another and to understand where people from other faiths are coming from. However, I agree with Celeste that the faiths are not compatible with one another and cannot be molded into one. The entire Christian faith rests on the truth that we are all sinners and the wage for sin is death, but because Jesus (the Son of God - who was sinless) died on the cross to pay for our sins, we are forgiven if we place our trust in Him.
None of the other main religions agree with this doctrine. They either label Jesus as a prophet, a good teacher, or a false prophet. However, Jesus could not have been a good teacher or a prophet if he was proclaiming to be God when he really wasn't. If you sit down and read the New Testament (specifically the Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) then you would know that there are only three possible choices concerning who Jesus was:
#3 JP
on April 23, 2008 at 4:37 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
(1) Jesus was who He said that He was - the Son of God.
(2) A lunatic who had delusions that he was God.
(3) A liar, who was willing (as were his followers) to die the most gruesome death for his lie.
If you look at Jesus' teachings, he does not appear at all to be a lunatic or a liar. I, for one, have chosen to believe that Jesus is the first option, because that is the only plausible choice.
#4 Sally
on April 23, 2008 at 5:41 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
JP, you totally missed the point. Pascal wasn't talking about the accuracy of the bible except to the extent that it itself is not divine, at best, dictated by the divine, but still written in by people in the earthy circle. The point is that a totally static view of God is not conducive to eluting truth. Of course, the Christian chauvinism demonstrated in Ms. Flint's article is mighty conducive to the perpetuation of the Church. But that's about it.
#5 AM
on April 24, 2008 at 2:05 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Ms. Flint-
As a Christian, I am ashamed of the views that you choose to promote through your column. My hope and prayer is that you recognize that there are a wide variety of ways to know Jesus, be that conservative, liberal, black, white, gay or straight. Knowing Jesus and being a "Christian" is more than just repeating summaries of Mark Driscoll sermons and spewing judgments toward anyone who does not believe exactly as you do. My faith is not "watered down" or "hokey," it is simply different--and that is perfectly OK with the Jesus I know and love.
Please, next time, consider your words more carefully as you claim to strive for the compassion that Jesus teaches. Last time I checked, Jesus himself participated in many interfaith dialogues throughout his life, speaking about love and respect for one's neighbor. I would appreciate you doing the same.
#6 Kaasa
on April 25, 2008 at 8:39 p.m.(Seattle, WA | Unverified Name)
Pascal says, "The only link between the two is the Bible, but that was written by people, translated by people, etc. What if something got mixed up along the way?"
You're almost there, Pascal. What if it was written, translated, etc., by human beings with no divine supervision whatsoever? Troubling, no?
#7 Dear Pascal
on April 28, 2008 at 8:57 p.m.(Bothell, WA | Unverified Name)
At the fall of man, man was separated from truth, God, nature, people and himself. We call it total depravity, every aspect of man has been corrupted.
Sin, in its nature, is rebellion against God. If humans are sinful by nature, then they will naturally rebel against God. Man left to his own means will move further from truth and God, not closer.
I agree that there are evidences of God everywhere on Earth, but I disagree that it is in the sum of all religions.
#8 The Brain (and Pinky too)
on April 29, 2008 at 11:25 p.m.(Renton, WA | Unverified Name)
Did they really need a conference to come to the fact that compassion is "good"? And how the hell do you determine what is "good" without absolute truth from a higher being (God/god/gods/the force) unless humanity thinks so highly of our own thought process and emotions that in fact we worship ourselves as god. All religions cannot be right (only one can or all are wrong)...because most (if not all) are exclusive as to the nature of God/god/gods/the force and man. Now, that does not mean that we can't cohabitate on this earth and work to serve others together (compassion), it just means that very few when it is all said and done will have found the true way.
The true question is, in all of this, what is the motivating factor for compassion. Many would say for the sake of other people. Some others would say for their own sake ("It makes me feel good."). And others yet say for the sake of their god/gods/God. I sense that the second option of "it makes me feel good" is the most prevalent motivating factor when you really dig deep (this goes for all religions including Christianity...I have seen this type of self-worship first hand and I am sure I have done it myself). Also, most religions say you have to "earn" your "salvation" in whatever form it takes and therefore all people of all false religions (only one can be right) are seeking benefit for themselves by seeking the good of others or seeking it for the sake of their god/gods/God/the force.
So this is how I see it. There are two options: one religion is right or no religion is right (IMO atheism = a religion for the sake of discussion). Let's assume that one religion is correct then (as opposed to none). That one religion will then have insight as to the "right" way to be compassionate in motive and not just in action or feeling or thought. My choice then is to believe that un-"hokey" pokey Biblical Christianity is the one religion that is right since you only need believe in Jesus to be saved instead of earning your salvation and from this you can be compassionate solely for the sake of something external to you, Jesus. Since Jesus has unconditionally forgiven, then those who believe in that forgiveness can give with compassion without competition from ulterior motives (unlike basically every other religion mainstream and semi mainstream religion which gives you requirements to earn salvation). I'm not saying that ulterior motives won't sometimes creep in to why a Christian acts a certain way (certainly anyone who has studied Christianity will understand that), but at least the option is there to be compassionate without ulterior motives. Then again, no religion could be right...but that's just stupid since everything comes from something. Until someone proves otherwise, no belief in a more powerful being is quite frankly D U M dumb.
#9 Pinky without the Brain
on April 29, 2008 at 11:25 p.m.(Renton, WA | Unverified Name)
That being said, I invite all the intolerance to my view point that everyone out there who disagrees with me can muster. Obviously, I am some crazy conservative, rich, white, Christian male who worships Mark Driscoll like he was Jesus and therefore my view is obsolete (no, I do not go to Mars Hill). God forbid I have an opinion that my religion is true and exclusive only to those that believe in my religion. That is absolute fricking lunacy to believe I am right and others are wrong. And don't you think that compassion for a Christian is to tell others about our beliefs (I don't want to see all you athiests, mormons, and Super Mario worshipers go to hell) and not just say that whatever you believe is fine? That would be hokey, watered down Christianity if I weren't to tell you I believe that you are in danger of going to a very bad place for a very long time.
In the end, I think what I am trying to say is blah blah blah blah blah, Jesus = truest/realest/bestest motivation for compassion…blah blah blah blah blah, I’m right (seriously, if you don’t think you also have a correct/better view then me then why don’t you just believe what I am telling you). Obviously I can’t convince everyone that my belief is right, but maybe we can all agree that we should do what we can to be “compassionate” (whatever the hell that means cause I am still confused as to what we are talking about when we say compassion) to one another…whatever our motivation.
#10 Amber O.
on May 1, 2008 at 6:52 p.m.(Federal Way, WA | Unverified Name)
AM, your comment is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read this article. I was raised Catholic and still practice. I am very turned off by Flint's writing in not only this column but in several of her past articles. I find it interesting to read Dehlawi and Sikavi because they speak of their religions with such grace. I wish that the paper would find a christian to do the same. Perhaps you, AM?
#11 KA
on May 2, 2008 at 10:05 a.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name)
JP: I thought you had an excellent post. I'm kind of surprised that the responses following didn't really clearly engage with what you said.
Celeste, I thought what you said made clear sense. I think what you talked about is what I experience daily when some friends and I talk to one another about our religious/spiritual beliefs. thanks for starting this post Celeste, Natalie, and Zakariya Dehlawi
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