By
Abby Walker
January 24, 2007
Part of being a college student is dealing with the post-University reality of finding a job. Not just any job, though, but a career that pays well enough to eliminate student loans and create a solid base for the future.
Some majors, such as engineering and computer science, make the transition easy. Jobs in these high-tech fields are abundant and often pay well.
Students who graduate with other degrees, especially those in the arts, aren't as lucky. People who study art, philosophy or music often choose such areas because they're passionate about the topic, not because of delusions of fame or fortune.
L.R. Davidson, a vocal performance major at the Manhattan School of Music, created "I Picked a Major I Like, and One Day I Will Probably be Living in a Box," to unite the students who would rather be happy than prosperous.
The topic began as an inside joke between Davidson and some friends last spring and developed into a Facebook group in the early summer.
"People in the arts tend to joke about how hard it is to be passionate about a field where you'll spend most of your life just auditioning to do the thing you're trained to do," she said. "That, coupled with the fact that most people in the arts earn less than the national poverty level, got us joking about what our living spaces would be like."
Students across the nation quickly latched on to the group as more than 56,000 people have joined. In the last couple days, there have been at least 2,000 new members.
UW freshman Irene Baltatescu joined a month ago after discovering the group through some friends. As a French and Italian major, she is unsure of what she can do with her degree, aside from being a translator.
"I feel that although I didn't have a lot of options with foreign languages, I would be happy to have that in my life and profession, with or without money," Baltatescu said.
The Facebook page contains a checklist for those who believe their major qualifies them to join the group. Included on the list are: "People have said to you, 'So what do you plan on doing with that?'" and "The starting salary is less than the cost of a Kia."
The group site also has nearly 6,000 posts by students explaining why their majors will likely result in happiness rather than financial success. One student commented that his parents will let him live in their tool shed, and another said that at least she can burn her old English textbooks to stay warm.
Davidson has received primarily positive responses to the group, as most people find it amusing. However, one person criticized the group for being insensitive to the homeless and pointed out that most of the members will never actually live in a box. Davidson clarifies that the group is just for fun and there are no social or political hidden meanings.
"We figured you can either embrace the fact you will most likely end up living in a box or closet, or you can be bitter about it," Davidson said. "And who has the time to be bitter about something you care so deeply about?"
Reach columnist Abby Walker at features@thedaily.washington.edu.
69 Comments
#1 Ames
on March 5, 2007 at 10:28 a.m.(Big Sandy, TN | Unverified Name)
As I, myself, am a member of the group I think it's a great way to support one another and it's encouraging to see that you aren't the only one who would rather be doing something you love than getting "rich."
#2 Jenn
on March 7, 2007 at 4:03 p.m.(Sewell, NJ | Unverified Name)
I love the group! I'm a history major and I don't want to be a teacher or a lawyer. I love history, I love learning about it and it's an occupation that won't allow for much but teaching and being a lawyer, but I'll be happy living in my box. Money can't buy you happiness, and this group wants people to know that!
#3 MTH
on March 8, 2007 at 2:08 a.m.(Williamsburg, VA | Unverified Name)
In response to Ames: More people in music have delusions of grandeur than people in tech. How about working hard (constantly, from the time tech-majors have to get good grades in their tech classes)and improving society instead of pursuing the path of least resistance? If you really are made for the arts, more power to you, be the best you can be, but, for most people, they should be more of a hobby than a career.
To Jenn: Yeah, money can't buy happiness, but it buys food, clothing, and shelter, which would probably make you and your family less un-happy. There's a lot of research jobs you can get in History(those stuffy people in history videos), but you shouldn't pursue, as a career, something for which you see no scope in. If you don't want to WORK as a historian, then get a degree in something else, and study history on the side. If you really like history, you will be willing to spend your leisure time on it.
In conclusion: None of you want to live in a cardboard box. At best, I can forsee financial problems buffered by alcohol (ab)use.
I think you should pursue something you like/are interested in, but be realisitic: if you don't want to make a career in it, or can't make enough to live a comfortable lifestyle, be willing to work harder and get out of your comfort zone to pursue something practical. I'm all for intellectual pursuits, but a degree is for getting a job, so treat it as such!
If you do decide to stick with a "cardboard box" major, make sure you're not doing it out of fleeting passion, because you're in love with the romantic idea of doing what you want for the sake of it, or that other majors are too much work. I know music majors can be tons of hours of practice and such, but don't think this means you'll get a job.
Myself, I pursue better jobs so my folks will be proud of me, so I have the OPTION of buying stuff, and so I have more power to affect positive change with my money. Helping society is what I get off on 12 hours of the day, so meaningful contributions and donations where they are useful/needed is what I want to do with my job. Good luck to you, keep reading, and keep it real.
#4 Nando
on March 8, 2007 at 11 a.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name)
Is it really below the national poverty level.. od
lol in any case, i love the group for supporting my decision to live in a cardboard box in central park.
#5 Meg
on March 8, 2007 at 3:08 p.m.(Austin, TX | Unverified Name)
Of course the people in this group don't actually WANT to live in a box - it's a joke, not a personal goal in life. And (MTH) as for your theory that a degree is for getting a job and should be practical, well, yes, for many professions a degree in that field is required for a job. However, in my family only one person is actually working in the field that their degree is in, and everyone is happy and successful. So if somebody wants to get a degree in history or humanities, and then ends up working in an office somewhere that has nothing to do with their degree, that's perfectly acceptable. You should study want you want to study, not what you think is going to be the career you work in for the rest of your life, because chances are that at some point you'll end up changing professions. And that's ok.
So good luck to all those in this group, and I hope that you are successful in whatever it is that you choose to pursue.
#6 Rin
on March 9, 2007 at 3:08 p.m.(Norman, OK | Unverified Name)
In response to MTH: yes, people should try to be realistic. But many people going into these fields already realize there are limited jobs available and that they will likely have to find additional jobs.
#7 Brendan
on March 11, 2007 at 8:18 a.m.(New Orleans, LA | Unverified Name)
A degree is not a tool for getting a job. These days, a bachelor's degree and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee. A small cup. The vast majority of employers really don't care whether or not you have a degree in the field in which you are working as long as you can do the work. Some day, we're all probably going to end up in cubicle jobs, but we liberal arts majors will have had a wider perspective on the world. Maybe computer science students don't need to know this, and thus don't, but this debate goes back to Socrates and a guy named Gorgias.
Incidentally, MTH, since being a music major is so easy, maybe you wouldn't mind switching classes with me for a semester. I'd love to only be in class for the 22 hours of credit I'm getting instead of 33. I hope your saxophone and clarinet playing are up to par. And don't forget to take a Greek class. That's my main language for my Classics major, and I'd really like to take one every semester if possible.
There is no doubt in my mind that I could handle a technology degree. But could you survive in the liberal arts degrees you're so quick to disparage?
#8 AMV
on March 13, 2007 at 2:23 p.m.(League City, TX | Unverified Name)
Oh good lord MTH! It's a damn facebook group! Look, most people who choose the arts as a their path in life don't have a "practical" personality. It's not to say we are irresponsible, unrealistic or lazy. We simply chose to instead of be miserable for the four years we struggle on ramen noodles and loan debt, to be happy and grab any chance we have in life of getting to do what we love. Yes, most of us will end up in a job that has nothing to do with our major. It might suck, or we might be pleasantly suprised.
Nobody in my family cares for the arts. I'll even go as far to say that my father's life mantra is "Work, Sweat, Die." He's never been happy with me. He may never be. So I chose to do what made me happy. I can say that he is proud of me for pursuing higher education.
My goal in life was to write the next great American novel. That may never happen. I may never be a great writer. But I don't want be "living in a box". I want to live in "van down by the river"! So I decided to teach, a practical approach to getting a steady paycheck. Maybe I can use that to contribute to society, as idealistic as that is.
I myself am optimistic, though sometimes unsure of my future. But I do know this: good for you and proud parents of your practicality,your once and future paycheck and your contributions to our capitalist society. Lighten up, we did.
#9 AMV
on March 13, 2007 at 2:24 p.m.(League City, TX | Unverified Name)
... and yes, I caught my own typo. "Instead of BEING miserable..."
#10 SAM
on March 16, 2007 at 6:17 a.m.(Mount Pleasant, MI | Unverified Name)
Some people are just better off doing what they love. I was having a conversation with a girl in my Appreciation of Theatre class. She's a chemistry major in her last semester of college. She said "I wish I could act, but I'd rather just sit there and be entertained." Then I said "I wish I actually cared about Chemistry and had the patience the learn anything about it!" We came to the conclusion that we need people be Chemists, Engineers, Computers Techies, etc. to keep the world going around... but we also need people to entertain and to express themselves through writing, painting, acting, so other people can become "cultured". Imagine if everyone gave up on the arts. It would not be a very exciting world. I do not care if I do not make a lot of money, I just want to be happy. :-)
#11 MTH
on March 17, 2007 at 12:39 a.m.(Blacksburg, VA | Unverified Name)
First of all, I'm glad to see your passionate responses.
Meg- I was referring to the idea that you'd be struggling financially as a result of your carer choice, not actually living in a box. Good point about how liberal arts majors' careers have flexible requirements.
Rin- Not sure what you're saying. Is it that practical majors will need second jobs?
Brendan- I am not a compsci major and one of my majors is philosophy, so don't give me that crap.
I've also studied Latin, probably less than you've studied Greek, but that really doesn't matter.
As for your music classes, I'm guessing that some of the 33 hours is just supervised practice, as practice is so crucial to your improvement in music(or any field...but I suppose immediate supervision is better able to point out subtle faults in your playing than you are?).
I'm glad you are confident in your technical skills, and the liberal arts are great, and I'm sure they can be hard. But is that what you want that piece of paper you get after four years, that's supposed to open doors in the market for you, to say? All I'm saying is that, unless you're a genius of the arts or well-connected or just good-looking, you will get the short end of the stick when it comes time to bring home the bacon.
Amv- The middle 80% is my favorite response so far. I appreciate that you want to do something you love, and it sounds like you have long loved your major, but...hmm, how should I say this? In your efforts to live off an "impractical"(that's pretty much how you described it!) major, you will probably end up working as hard as others, putting up with as much stress as others to get the decidedly lower salary you have accepted BECAUSE it's an "impractical" major.
I ask this question of polsci majors: Do you known what majors politicians graduated with? Do you really think it will help you run for office? I took a moment to look up Michael Crichton and John Grisham's college degrees: Crichton studied to be a doctor, and Grisham, a lawyer. I'm not saying you have to be a doctor or lawyer, but would it hurt your chances as an author to study something more practical than English? This is more of a general statement, as you have said you planned on teaching with your degree. Of course you can improve society by teaching, teach well and impart a realistic world view on your students.
I'm sorry you think I would hit below the belt at your intelligence on a minor grammar mistake. I did not notice it.
Sam- I want to do what I love too. But is going to endless casting calls and starving doing what you love? Just make sure there is some scope for you to make some money, I mean... I guess it's good for you to pursue an art if you love it, but does it have to be your primary profession? Just plan to DO something that you like...if you are not likely to get a good job in your field, do you think that's what you'll be doing for money? Probably not, so plan accordingly.
Overall, I'm happy to see that my comment incites some emotions in you. By telling me, you have given me more knowledge, a "wider perspective of the world", if you will.
You should be/want to be happy. But you will probably need a decent/regular source of income to be happy, and a degree is a path to a job that could give you this. Why get a degree in a job that will not likely be your primary source of income?(ie, don't plan on just acting..bc you may end up teaching theater? just plan realistically...if you don't like what you will PROBABLY end up doing, then don't take that path.)
Education is the means by which we communicate our talents with the world. -M. T. Head
#12 AMV
on March 17, 2007 at 7:13 a.m.(League City, TX | Unverified Name)
MTH: I don't believe my major is impractical. Your response gives the impression that you think so. I have a cousin who went to school to be an engineer. He graduated and got his "dream job". He hated it. You know what he does now? He's a hairdresser. He LOVES his job and his life. The money isn't great. But he gets to work with people, has great clientele and still has time to do the things he enjoys doing outside of work. Practical is what you make it.
#13 Proud to Starve
on March 18, 2007 at 4:47 p.m.(Geneseo, IL | Unverified Name)
MTH:Personally, I'd rather starve to death doing something I love, and thus live a short, but ultimately fulfilled life, than waste my breath and God-given talent slaving away within a cubicle to the end of my long but worthless days. Money is not, and never will be an issue for me. And what you said about music majors and the majority of those hours being supervised practice, you are wrong. Most of those hours come from classes that are only offered at the exact same time as other required classes, making getting those hours a royal pain and a lengthy process. The remainder of those hours DO NOT come from supervised practice. They come from being in school-affiliated ensembles, which rehearse multiple hours a week, but those hours do not get counted accurately as hours towards your degree. Typically, five hours of rehearsal counts for as little as half an hour to an hour. Now, these ensembles that count towards your hours are auditioned. Meaning you have to spend countless hours preparing, outside of all the required classes that have little relevance to what you actually want to do with that major once you graduate. Then there is the applied private lessons. This isn't supervised practice time either, but it's still required. You COME to your private lesson PREPARED, meaning you have already practiced endlessly on your own time, what precious little of it there is. You do NOT come to practice with a teacher, you come to learn a whole new concept, or further prepare for a required recital, which, by the way, those required recitals take vast amounts of practicing to prepare adequately for as well. Did I mention that all of this practicing has to happen around the time already being devoted to being at rehearsals for those previously mentioned ensembles? And that being in those ensembles also requires outside practice time? You don't come to a rehearsal to practice, you come to rehearse, meaning you must already you know your part to performance quality. You come to learn everyone else's parts and how that all fits together. Sounds easy, does it? The average serious HIGH SCHOOl musician only has time to sleep between 3-5 hours a night. This is only gets worse once you hit college. Does this sound like a headache and a royal pain? It should. Do I still love doing all the above with every fiber of my being? Of course. I'm not made to do anything else, nor will I be made to do it, by persuasion, force, or emaciation. I'm proud to starve for what I love.
#14 Tom
on April 30, 2007 at 11:10 p.m.(Chelsea, MA | Unverified Name)
Sure. Crichton studied to be a doctor, and Grisham a lawyer. It should probably be noted Crichton's books are very medical, and Grisham writes thrillers about the law. It should also be noted that Stephen King was an English major, became a teacher to support his family, and ultimately became arguably one of the most successful writers of our time.
He followed what he loved. I recently graduated with a bachelor's in English. I just scored a job that I actually love, and being there is allowing me to turn back to writing again in my spare time, to pursue the passions that brought me to majoring in English in the first place. When you love something enough, you're willing to do anything it takes to get there. And, with any luck, you make the world a little brighter along the way. That's my two cents.
#15 Pris
on May 2, 2007 at 5:03 p.m.(Columbia, MD | Unverified Name)
MTH: You need to stop downing our ambition of wanting to be happy with our un-common or more competetive majors. You make yourself sound out to be an unhappy, and if not that, stuck-up individual who think they know what's best for everyone.
I, for one, am majoring in Animation and Media Arts at my local Art Institute. I plan to graduate after my thrid year of blood, sweat, and tears of fun (yes-- of FUN) with a BA. I KNOW it won't be easy to get a job. I'll prob. have to have some random job while I intern at a local art company, aniamtion studio, or even on a movie set if I can *note: my 2nd cousin is an expeirenced stuntman (Ace Ventura, Transporter 1 and 2, and more), and has directed and produced a couple of feature films before.* So maybe he can help me out. But I know it's going to take awhile.
I actually had an argument sometime back with a friend of mine. She wants to be a JAG lawyer, and she told me I won't be successful or get anywhere with an art major (unless I'm superbly good), and I'll prob. end up with some deskjob. What did I say? "I refuse to work at a deskjob in a cramped cuticle the rest of my life only to be a stuck-up, miserable snob. I am satisfied at knowing that I might not be making 100k a year. On a national average, an animator can make about $57,600/yr. And one of my professors, who actually animated Spongebob and Face from Nickelodeon for a few years, said that you can be making a heck of a lot of money if you work hard enough and are good enough. Yet he warned us of the comptetion. Us art, music, theater, etc. people are not stupid.
Personally, I find it offensive that you and others can be so pessimitic and have such negative outlooks on non-"practical" majors.
As a matter of fact, a dear friend of mine wants to be a well-known, great director someday. Yes, he's still pursuing the career and in college. But you know what? Despite having little-to-no money, he has already won a screenwriting award *through, not from, his school* and made multiple low-budget yet impressive short films on his own. AND he hasn't even started at film school yet. Happiness IS when you strive for what you love.
Another thing: Yes, Advertising, Music, Graphic Design, Animation, Studio Art, and Theater majors are competitive, but do you know how wide-spread art is??? How many oppurtunities there are for internships and jobs?? You can work within any field from web deisgn to being a freelancing graphic designer, for a company of the military. Or a local television commercial animator or storyboard artist.
And yeah: It's a lot about who you know as well. I don't know how much luck I will have, but knowing that I have a family member with good resume in film could really help me out-- maybe he could refer me to someone. I also know that many jobs REQUIRE a BA or BS. As mentioned, it is a tool. Some people are better without a degree than those with one. But it's a damn good idea to have a basic list of knowledge and a portfolio to present to an employer, isn't it?
So, yeah. There's my two cents.
#16 Mariana
on May 4, 2007 at 9:58 p.m.(Location Unknown | Unverified Name)
Just wanted to say that there are a lot of people out there without university degrees who make A LOT more money than those with practical university degrees. Something to think about.
An education is an education. Many people go to university to learn; not to get a job. It's always useful to take a few courses here and there to keep your feet on the ground, but in the end, it's mostly experience that counts.
#17 Ebuni
on May 7, 2007 at 11:49 a.m.(Dickerson, MD | Unverified Name)
Violinagin, I couldn't help but laugh at your response: "If you want just a job, there's this wonderful thing called vocational school."
#18 Heather
on May 13, 2007 at 5:46 p.m.(Scarborough, Canada | Unverified Name)
I didn't appreciate this article very much. In the third paragraph, it makes those students who chose to study engineering or computer science as people who are only looking to be prosperous in life. And sure, maybe there are people in this field who are, but you can say that about almost anything.
Why can't I study engineering and be passionate about it. I want to study environmental engineering, and I can say that I am very passionate about the environment. I can be passionate about it if I went into the Arts, but I chose to be passionate about it through engineering. My choice, and my PASSION.
#19 KNIGHT
on May 18, 2007 at 7:25 a.m.(Nashville, TN | Unverified Name)
Though I may be just starting my undergraduate college this fall, I already know what I would like to study: a major in English - Creative Writing and a minor in either Classics or just Greek. When I look at these majors, do I see a job at which these studies would be applicable? No way in Hell. Even now, I keep looking at other majors and minors, thinking,"If I took a such-and-such course, would it help me rake in the cabbage." Certainly, I have doubts as to what my creative writing and expertise on classical cultures can do for my future wages, but I know I will be satisfied with my studies.
Fine, it's not like I'm taking architecture or geology, where one might actually find decent paying jobs, but at least I'll be happy.
My salary for writing the News in Brief articles for a newspaper of a sleepy Southern hamlet will probably not bring home the bacon. I think that realizing this EARLY, instead of skipping naively through my artsy-fartsy life, has prepared me for the better.
I
think that if my writing career does not come together to make something I can live on, I can always fall back on my other love: Dogs.
Dog trainers are in high demand these days, because most high business workers don't have enough time in their busy lives to train Schnookums the Schnoodle not to jump on the couch or teach Paco the Chihuahua that piddling in the middle of one's living room is not acceptable behavior. I know of a pet-sitter/dog trainer who double-majored in Architecture and Philosophy who found later in life that his calling was to work with dogs. I admire him for that.
The fact is, I am convinced that whatever I end up doing for the betterment of society, whether it be a best-selling novelist or a dog-walker, I know I will be satisfied with my life.
#20 JD
on May 20, 2007 at 12:08 p.m.(Wellesley Hills, MA | Unverified Name)
While I think everyone is making fine and justified points, I do just want to comment that not everyone who will choose to become a lawyer or a doctor or an architect is doing it for the money and to satisfy their soulless ambition. Some of us are truly excited about the opportunities that these jobs will open up, and money is not the reason we will enter such fields. So...I guess just a cautionary comment against reverse elitism.
#21 RKP
on May 24, 2007 at 11:10 a.m.(Hoboken, NJ | Unverified Name)
Look...I'm studying to be an engineer becuase I'm passionate about it. I love Physics, Multivariate Calculus, Mechanics of Solids, it really is something I enjoy. And I think my life is richer because I have a level of appreciation for the universe because I know (roughly) what makes it spin. Shame on all of you for complaining about how much of your time practices/classes take up. You're in college to immerse yourself in your major- whatever that is. And "tech" majors are doing the exact same thing. It's a moot point how much time you pour into your major: good things will come of that whatever your major is.
I think one of the reasons MTH and others aren't thrilled with this article and the facebook group is because of the implication that we computer, engineer, science, math people are a) geeks b) dispassionate c)bound to end up in a cubicle. If you want some respect for your major, then maybe you need to get off your high horses and see how much *we* love what we do. We're no different from you. It's just that instead of wanting to buy a gold-plated trombone or a signed copy of "Moby Dick" we want a TI-83 or higher, Mac to rule the world and e=mc^2 not to be the most recognized equation.
Oh- one more thing. When you ever hear someone say they like math or science or whatever, it is *rude* to start going on and on about how much you hated it in high school. Yeah, we probably hated history or english but we sound like pompus asses if we say that. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
#22 ARC
on May 25, 2007 at 10:27 p.m.(Huntingdon Valley, PA | Unverified Name)
It's really hilarious to me how the whole "comments" section of this page turned into a sort of fight from a bunch of people against MTH. Think about it. It just turned into a massive sarcastic rant. It seems to me that our culture, embodied by this comments section, has become so incredibly self-interested and sarcastic. I appreciate some of the people who took a calmer tone (meaning less like they were on their own soapbox) and seemed more rational. Huh. I guess this is kind of what it is to be American - and don't take it personally, I'm still learning what this means, to be American - but I think I agree with MTH. I can understand and respect some other people's points as well, but I think MTH encourages people to think clearly and make wise decisions. It doesn't seem so wrong to me. And the rest of you, well, your bickering manner makes you seem like children. Truly.
I have to say that I liked RKP's post, too. If not for that, I probably wouldn't have posted anything. So, thanks for your sincere thought and more power to you.
#23 Tracy
on May 28, 2007 at 8:23 a.m.(Richmond, VA | Unverified Name)
I agree. I, myself, am an art major. I'm studying metalworking, jewelry, and I paint just for fun. Math and Science have always fascinated me, I'm just not very good at either. I have a tremendous amount of respect for engineers (seeing as some of my closest friends are engineering majors) and I don't judge them for their field of choice. Whatever major you are, I can respect, because people are passionate about different things. My friends are like kids in a candy store when they see computers, circuits, any electrical gadget that strikes their fancy...I, on the other hand, go insane when I see metal sculptures, interesting designs in jewelry, or just shiny, pretty things.
It really doesn't matter how much money you make, as long as you're happy, but, at the same time, being realistic wouldn't hurt.
Also, people really shouldn't take things like this facebook group, so seriously. I mean, it did start out as an inside joke, so it's meant to be all in good fun.
#24 Stef
on May 29, 2007 at 10:11 p.m.(Grand Rapids, MI | Unverified Name)
I think it's important to pick a major you love, keeping in mind that you do want to find a job with which you are satisfied. No matter how much you love a certain field, if you can't find a job within that field, you may grow disillusioned with the whole thing. Be sure you have some possible jobs in mind when you choose your major, especially if it's a field that will involve further study (aka grad school), or auditions. Also, you have to be willing to make some sacrifices if you choose such a major. I am working towards obtaining a double major in English and Russian Studies, a combination many people find useless; however, I chose it, because I want to teach as a professor. I already know I will be spending countless years in school, postponing the opportunities of starting a family and making money, so that I can do something I love. If that doesn't pan out, there are opportunities involving foreign service, including the CIA, that I can pursue. College is indeed the place where you become a well rounded, mature individual, but that education will be put to the greatest use if you are able to find a job in your chosen major.
#25 Michelle
on June 2, 2007 at 3:42 p.m.(San Jose, CA | Unverified Name)
Hahaha. Much respect to MTH. It's most likely that he doesn't check this anymore, but the passionate and sometimes overly-dramatic responses make me happy, too.
Props to Erin Henneberry, Heather, JD, RKP, Tracy, and especially ARC.
It's not the major that is the defining point of who you are-- it's what you do with it.
And I'm sure that's what he believes as well. He's not criticizing your choice of study nor trying to "dampen your spirits". He's just breathing more reason into the discussion because face it, he's right about more people in the arts having delusions of grandeur than people in tech.
I for one am all about the humanities, and I could never be a science major because I have no interest in it, but people like "Proud to Starve" should cut down on the histrionics and stop trying to paint all techie majors as voiceless robots who sacrificed their passions for the sake of money. The fact that you people have Internet access and the opportunity to pursue higher education is a testament to the many priveledges you enjoy. By all means, do what you love. Follow your dreams. That to me is a worthy endeavor. But please, for the sake of those who disagree, don't over-romanticize it and act as if you're more enlightened for choosing that path. If the world did not contain both types, those who treat education as a means, and those who treat education as an end, it'd either collapse or be pretty damn boring. Striving to affect positive change whether with money or with talent is more admirable to me than getting indignant that people don't respect your choice to major in something less likely to provide a lucrative position.
Once you achieve excellence in ANY field, people will respect you. Until then, soldier on, my friend. Trust in your convictions only so much that you won't be blinded by them.
-- a fellow dreamer
#26 zahn
on July 16, 2007 at 10:10 p.m.(Durham, NC | Unverified Name)
I think that MTH from the earlier post was just posting to be argumentative and be the asshole on the other side. I can't stand people who go against, what is obviously a joke, just to go against it and stir something.
honestly, just go to the corner and stfu.
thanks
#27 Maria
on July 24, 2007 at 8:14 p.m.(Spring Grove, IL | Unverified Name)
My mother keeps telling me to go to school for something I can get a job in and pay off my loans. I say "why take out loans if I'm going to waste the money on education I am not passionate about...I want to follow my dreams and be happy, even if it means I'll be poor!"
#28 KPB
on July 27, 2007 at 11:03 p.m.(Portland, ME | Unverified Name)
I went to school. I got a 150K dollar degree in something that interested me (maybe I'm not quite passionate about it...), but let's be real. The point of a liberal arts education isn't necessarily even about what you learn in the classroom. It's about helping form a functional human being. My piece of paper may say "History" but my most enriching experiences were affiliated with student activities. Without those experiences in student life, I would not be the person I am today, and would not have a job that I love with every fiber of my being. What's that job, you may ask? I work in retail as a cashier. A job that doesn't require any degree.
Is the money great? Of course not. Am I still living with my parents at 23? Of course I am. But am I the happiest I have been in a job *ever*? You're damn right.
((And for the record, I did have a "real" "career" type job right out of college. One that was related to my minor - poli sci - and that paid INCREDIBLY well for a 22yo just barely graduated from college. And I have never been so depressed as when I was working that job.))
So, while you may not end up working as a technician, musician, actor, chemist, historian or teacher like your degree nominally would dictate, you will always take the lessons you learned in and out of the classroom with you. And if you're happy - whether it be an "impractical job/major" or a "realistic job/major", then more power to you. So many people are unhappy with the choices in their life. Don't be one of them. Follow your dreams wherever they may take you...
And my long winded, cheesy liberal arts endorsement is over :o)
#29 Vanessa
on July 30, 2007 at 9:09 p.m.(Winchester, VA | Unverified Name)
I picked a major I like and I will be living in a nice single family home. My passion is engineering.
Some people like the idea of working in office buildings in cubicles, also, not all engineers work in such situations. I've met dozens of engineers who make a good living doing what they love.
I agree with the idea of the group (majors for what you're passionate about) but I just don't like seeing all this hate on engineers and other typically nerd majors. Some people really are passionate about these things.
#30 pr
on August 2, 2007 at 7:52 p.m.(Glen Aubrey, NY | Unverified Name)
Coming in at the tail end of the debate (a few months late), it seems that a few things can be summed up perhaps. Over the last century the focus of college, and education for that matter has changed greatly. From the idea of enlightenment to the idea of salary.
Now we have this debate raging on what major/career choice is better. To strive for something you love, or to strive for something you'll succeed in. I think we, all of us have become disillusioned perhaps by drawing a line between the two. You categorize majors into Art (Art, Philosophy, etc), and those that are Technical(Science, Engineering, Comp Sci, etc). This also is a major problem; this absolutism that is created is the basis for problems. It sort of goes to seem that one cannot love a engineering major, that one cannot love as you do a computer science major. Now why is this? Is it because in school you looked upon math and science with dismay? You would rather write a poem than do a math problem? Don’t you think that some science majors had the same problem with English and Art? That is why they found a major that allowed them to use their skills and abilities, and provided a practical job? Granted, you hear that it doesn’t matter what your major is, but for those who are in the sciences like hell it doesn’t. Do you think, that an English major, with no engineering/math(higher level)/science could very well design something such as a cell phone? On the other hand, do you feel that an Engineer with no formal viola training could go play in the Boston Philharmonic? I would highly doubt that.
At this point maybe I should mention that I’m an Engineering major, who most likely am a sell out of sorts. In high school math and science were not my favorite classes, however apt I am with them. I enjoyed writing, history, politics, etc a lot more. Perhaps because there were more grey areas, room for intellectual discourse that is left out of the sciences. Mostly for me it was here is a concept/theorem, boom done understand move on to the next. Only if you start reading into higher level concepts that are still being pondered today do you get that level of grey area found in the Liberal Arts areas. However, looking at careers where I felt I could make the greatest impact in, Engineering and Physics came up on my radar screen (figuratively). Now I also, once again was a sell out to physics, because of the end salary. It seemed(s) that Electrical Engineers come out of a BS, BS/MS higher than the average Physics major.
To those of you who had said that where would the world be without music and art, how boring it would be; I agree. However, next time your listening to music, unless its someone just standing on a corner with out any amplification or instruments singing or clapping their hands, think. How do I hear what I hear. What kind of person/mind came up with the instrument, let alone the technology for data to be sent over radio waves, for that data to be interpreted into electrical pulses, from electric signals to sound; or how you can carry music on Records, 8-Tracks, Cassettes, CD’s, or MP3 players. Those were scientists and engineers who loved what they did, and because of their passion and love allowed you to be able to experience your passion to a greater extent. Playing music didn’t give us the internet, it didn’t give us cars, or wagons. It doesn’t create means to feed us, or to create means to heal us. Therefore, please take away with you the idea that yes, some people choose what they want to do, what they enjoy. Of those who do, some go on paths to singular enjoyment, something that they themselves will find pleasure out of, and create pleasure in others; others however choose the path that they enjoy too, a path that will allow others to enjoy life longer, happier, with more options than before. Giving means for those to enjoy what they do that much better.
End of rant.
(Side note, many philosophers in the past were scientists/mathematicians as you well know. Just figured I should mention that. The philosophical writings were a byproduct of great minds)
#31 Centra
on September 5, 2007 at 8:43 p.m.(UW Campus | Unverified Name)
If youre so practical why dont you save money and go to vocational school instead? If you just want knowledge in one field for one job, go to vocational school. If you want to learn to think for yourself, to develop and become a better person as a whole, go to college. If you dont want that you're just wasting your money with a degree.
My first problem with your comment is that you presume that people with majors that dont earn them much cash do it because its easier, so they don't have to work hard. To put it frankly, thats b.s. If you are passionate about something you work harder to be good at it, because you love it and want to excel in it. Those of us who are passionate about our fields of study do work hard, but we cant take responsibility for any slackers that give our fields a bad name. Also, did it ever occur to you that our fields could be harder than your 'practical' ones? Household names that we recognize from art, literature, music, acting did not become famous from slacking off. And comparitively, your practical fields produce a lot less household names. Only the innovative ones do. Your practical fields thrive off of learning formulas, from thinking to only get results. People that study so they can one day create something new and wonderful have to have a passion and a commitment that goes so far beyond the 'practical' fields. And I assure you, very few people that make innovative discoveries go into the fields just for the money. Its a passion for the subject matter that backs it all up.
Just to point out, about 60% of college graduates do not work in the field in which they got their degree. And not all degrees that, as you put it, 'require hard work,' are actually practical. You can major in high enegy physics and the only place you can ge a job is as a college professor. But you certaitly would not scoff at the subject matter.
Im ranting, I know, but to wrap it up simply- You only live once. I only get to live once and I would much rather live pursuing something I love rather than die with a bunch of money yet no internal satisfaction with my lifes work.
#32 KDB
on October 2, 2007 at 5:41 p.m.(Philadelphia, PA | Unverified Name)
MTH:
1) Even if a job has good pay (or even great pay), you can still end up struggling and unhappy. Pharmacists can make over 6 figures, yet I know some who are in great debt due to not handeling their money well.
2) These "impractical" majors do have a role in society, if everyone just one day decided to major in Bio, Law, engineering, etc. who would teach english, or write press releases, paint pictures for your house, animate movies, do stuntwork, or write books? Sure there is a lot of competition and not always a lot of pay, but it needs to be done.
3) Working a job you hate sucks. Ive worked in a Pharmacy and Im majoring in it. When I worked in the Pharmacy it was miserable and I realised that I didnt want to be a pharmacist. Now Im taking pre-requisites for Pharmacy school and I hate my science and math classes because they bore me so much. Now I realize that you could never pay me enough to be a pharmacist. Id rather make 30K, live in a tiny apartment, and live on a tight budget if Im doing what I love.
#33 Thomas
on October 17, 2007 at 11:51 a.m.(Tucker, GA | Unverified Name)
Look here nay-sayers: leave these people alone.
Despite the fact I chose a "practical" major, that is, concentrating in construction management, it is what I love and it is where my talent lies. If you were to come up to me on the street and tell me that my choice is wrong when it has nothing to do with you, I'd tell you where to stick your opinion. Bottom line is live and let live. If people studying what they love makes you unhappy, maybe you don't make enough money.
#34 Chris
on November 4, 2007 at 2:59 p.m.(Sassafras, Australia | Unverified Name)
"or that other majors are too much work"
Typical tech-speak. Because playing with computers and lego is real work, of course!
#35 Chris
on November 4, 2007 at 2:59 p.m.(Sassafras, Australia | Unverified Name)
"or that other majors are too much work"
Typical tech-speak. Because playing with computers and lego is real work, of course!
#36 LIN
on November 13, 2007 at 7:21 p.m.(River Falls, WI | Unverified Name)
I also did extremely well in my math-science course work and did so right on into college.I went in with the notion I'd be a bio-physics major and I genuninely have a head for those types of concepts, but I found I'd spend all my free time and energies (in high school and college)in the "card board box" catagories, and that's what I love doing more than anything.
I still go to sps (society of physics students) meetings and hear about all the latest in the physics world and how excited those people would get about them, and then theres me, sitting there thinking "...umm..yeah...thats cool...I guess." Yet tell me anything musical/theatrical/etc and I'll light right up. That coupled with the experience I had this summer at a 9-5 (correction: 6am-4pm) job (that in the beginning I was actuly kinda excited about), working alongside people who they were only there for a source of income, and seeing how un-happy they were (and in my case downright miserable)I decied there is no way I'd allow myself to walk into some career I wouldn't enjoy, at least the majority of. Hard work towards something that may not turned out as planned has yet to bother me. I'd rather take the chance and at worst end up in a comprise than resign myself to something I do just for money.
But, if you're one of those people who love the numbers, more power to ya, I won't be getting in your way for that job just so I can have a stable income and no other reason.
Everyone has their own talents, abilities, and just as important, mentalities to go with them.
My roomate (the chemistry major) and I had a disscussion one day. I love creating things. Sounds out of air, pictures off a blank sheet of paper. She hates doing that, loves following formulas. I'm notorious for making my own up.
Some of us are ok with the desk job. Some of us prefer the unstable, sproadic schuldes. Some are hyper-creative. Some entertain, other like to be entertained. some crunch numbers, some of us are ok with something plain and simple, no thought, just get a check and head out the door. And we need people in every aspect in our society who have all those talents. So go pick whatever major or path matches you best and go after it. Just because the people around you don't nessarily see that value in it doesn't mean it isn't used somehwere...its there for a reason.
#37 KC
on November 15, 2007 at 7:34 p.m.(Sydney, Australia | Unverified Name)
It's not just the 'arts' degrees that don't make an inordinate amount of money. These days many degrees don't guarantee 'money'. I mean you can't tell me (having spent a considerable amount of time doing it) that a science degree isn't a difficult degree with spending 30+ hours a week on campus plus having to work to survive. Yet I think you'd find that many science students end up changing career paths post-degree simply because the jobs aren't there to support it, or they decide they enjoyed the degree but working for a) a drug company or b)a lab, isn't fulfilling. Every second person is doing a 'commerce' degree so even though it 'sounds' practical, when you graduate is it really going to amount to earning heaps of money or even necessarily being financially viable? No, it won't... So my point is, at least if you do a degree that you enjoy then you can guarantee yourself a good 3-4 years of widening your span of knowledge and maybe a few good times, anything beyond that isn't guaranteed even for 'practical' degrees.
#38 SPS
on December 13, 2007 at 2:03 p.m.(Los Angeles, CA | Unverified Name)
Let's stop arguing about the utility/lack of utility of majors. Understand that all disciplines lie in a continuum, rather than being completely separated.
Example: Western science and political thought have a common ancestor in Descartes's Discourse on Method. Descartes's exploration of epistemology, education, and philosophy led not only to Newtonian science, but to Thomas Hobbes's Leviathan, the first articulation of secular social contract theory(government is established by the consent of the governed, not simply by divine right), the basic theory of Western democracy.
And I know this last reference is going to be seen as really sketchy, but didn't Stalin call writers "engineers of the human soul", when toasting Maxim Gorky?
Everyone approaches the academic experience in a different direction. I've seen musicians become journalists(Blair Tindall, writer of Mozart in the Jungle) physicists become mail handlers(my own family), and would-be historians and religion scholars dream of political careers(myself).
#39 JMW
on January 25, 2008 at 4:29 p.m.(Bloomington, IN | Unverified Name)
Wow...I think that the bottom line in this is that some people get degrees for the money and some people get degrees for their passion. It doesnt matter if its music, medicine, engineering, dance...
there are just those two types of ppl. and that is what this whole page of arguments is trying to get out.
#40 ap
on January 26, 2008 at 1:29 p.m.(Lake Zurich, IL | Unverified Name)
The arts need visionaries, romantics, and dreamers. people who have fun with what they are doing. dont think of school as only a place to train for a job, but a place to learn about yourself, have fun, and do what you love doing...aside from finals. As far as after graduation...life doesnt start when you graduate..but you better hope you had made some connections while you were in school, maybe done a couple internships, and actualy held a job in the field you want, otherwise, yes i can see where the box might come in. good luck to everyone on their path away from the cardboard box!
#41 Sam
on February 2, 2008 at 12:09 p.m.(Fort Collins, CO | Unverified Name)
Everyone should pursue their passion in some way, shape or form. If you've chosen to pick a liberal arts major, more power to you-- I am a science major, and while your classes are technically easier, I don't think I could be creative all day. I admit to liking the job security that comes with a more "practical" field. I also know that my life would be boring without novelists, actors, and musicians, so for those of you who want to make your living that way, I thank you, wish you the best of luck, and hope you don't end up in a box.
#42 Colin
on February 3, 2008 at 3:41 p.m.(Santa Cruz, CA | Unverified Name)
I'm a Lit major. I have always wanted to teach, I've had amazing teachers who have changed my life and made me realize that I do have a place in the world and can make a tangible difference. I don't expect to make a ton of money. Tons of my friends from rich families frequently piss me off because they are always wanting new things and never happy with what they have. I have a run down car, a slow computer and grew up on cheap food, overall I'm pretty happy... I mean it would be nice to be able to pay for good tattoos rather than homemade ones and buy Newcastle instead of Pabst but when it comes down to it, I am happy.
#43 Catherine
on February 9, 2008 at 2:04 a.m.(Tampa, FL | Unverified Name)
I enjoy the humor of the "living in a box" facebook group. I find the irony to be that, unfortunately, any major is susceptible to "living in a box." Dad is a fantastic Chem-E who has gotten stuck in contracting, which he hates. He is the crunch guy, but for the everyday stuff, they want a cheaper, new grad. Aunt is a corporate attorney. She loves it, but corporate America has no personal commitment and she worries. I was psych. Had a good job in marketing and have to find a new one because my husband was transferred to a location where I have no network. Job hunting stinks. I am sans-box because hubby can provide right now. So, all said...I believe all to be welcome in the group. Join and laugh! And here's hoping we all can make it work out somehow, God help us!
#44 Flute
on February 12, 2008 at 9:06 p.m.(Marysville, WA | Unverified Name)
"Everyone has their own talents, abilities, and just as important, mentalities to go with them."
Amen to that, LIN. I'm double-majoring in music ed and Japanese ed, with a double-minor in musical theater and something else (probably something like dance or Asia/Pacific studies or creative writing). Will any of that stuff make me the big bucks? I doubt it. But the thing is, I wouldn't want to do engineering or med school or anything. Why? Because I am absolutely awful at math. It does not click in my head, and on top of that I have mild dyscalculia. I struggled through math with Ds and I was absolutely miserable. I dropped it as soon as I could. If I were to try and do any sort of math-related major I think I would have a breakdown.
My boyfriend, on the other hand, loves math. He's a junior in high school and is passing AP calculus with flying colors. It's amazing. He wants to go into engineering, not because of the money (though I'm sure that does hold a certain amount of appeal) but because he loves it. We're both very passionate about what we want to do, but it's different things in different ways. It's been kind of hard for us to see things from each other's point of view because I can't fathom how he could ENJOY math and he can't understand how I just don't get it. It's a learning experience for both of us.
Really, you shouldn't force yourself to go into something you hate just for the money. It'll make you miserable in the long run. If you can stand sitting in a cubicle for hours or doing super complex equations, great! Go for it. More power to you. I couldn't, and I'm not about to do it just to make a buck. I'll find something else to do. But it takes all types to keep the world going forward!
#45 CCSICE
on February 17, 2008 at 10:21 a.m.(Location Unknown | Unverified Name)
Did you guys miss the point?
Be passionate about ANY MAJOR and it will lead you to good things in life. and if you are passionate then working so hard in school won't be so difficult.
The world is flexible, but you have one chance at your college years, doing something you love is important, some people love money and are not hopeless romantics. Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. it explains this dilemma of practical versus the unpractical romantic choices people make.
#46 hay
on February 23, 2008 at 9:34 a.m.(Location Unknown | Unverified Name)
Well, I really enjoyed reading all of these comments, and think that a few people made very good points. I would like to bring up another point, that moves the discussion onto a slightly different path, but directly relates.
Personally, I am an Equine Training and Instruction major. I chose it because I love working with horses and people, and seeing the progression they make in their training. According to aptitude tests and the simple reality of my personality, I'm destined to do the dirty jobs that most of the United States seems to dislike (that's why all our illegal immigrants end up doing them.) I have the ability to pursue just about anything I could want, but it turns out that I prefer the type of jobs that just fly right under the radar.
Instead of being loud and proud of an arts degree, or rich and esteemed by society with a more techology-based career, I am going to go by unnoticed, but doing an essential job (Yes, I know that teaching kids to ride horses doesn't really seem essential to society these days, but I'm speaking for all the agricultural or warehouse workers that go unappreciated by society.)
In my opinion, we need to stop bashing any career, and just start appreciating them all. There are jobs in any career imaginable, and most people have to really work for any of them. They are all necessary in today's society, and all should be given the credit they deserve (This includes giving credit to immigrants, since without them USA's economy would crash and burn.)
My advice: be realistic to the possibilities of your chosen career, and have a back-up plan. Your major is your choice, and I believe that doing something you enjoy is important, but just be aware of any possible consequences.. whether that may be living in a box or not. Along with that, be open-minded to other peoples' passions and career decisions. We all have different motivations for choosing majors, and we need to Respect that.
#47 Genny
on February 28, 2008 at 11:41 p.m.(San Francisco, CA | Unverified Name)
Well its not just the major its the schools you wish to go to for graduate schools as well that affect your cardboard box situation. Im a history major dying to go to George Washington University for my masters....so basically my new address will be the Lincoln Memorial. :)
#48 Justice
on March 17, 2008 at 11:56 a.m.(Cookeville, TN | Unverified Name)
HAHAHA. Some of these people claim to be happy, yet waste valuable amounts of time arguing over something ridiculous.
#49 MajLuv
on March 22, 2008 at 4:34 a.m.(Williams Lake, Canada | Unverified Name)
Well I have been reading all these comments, and the conclusion I have come to is that, we are all passionate about something, even MTH. Sure some us like to read and write, but others like to design the next toaster, or want to figure out why we shouldn't build our house on that piece of land.
What it comes down to is that everything goes hand in hand. An engineer may enjoy the sounds of classical music, while the pianist may wonder about the invention of buildings that provide good acoustics. One thing that can be said is, that good dialouge and discussion, provide a new way of looking at things. We need everyone and if we are not willing to give others a chance, why would they be willing to give us a chance.
One last point, you may wonder what my major is, it is Communications. Why? Because media has always fasicinated me. For me it's not the easy way out, I truly am fascinated by the prospects of learning how to decphier truth from fiction. I enjoy learning new things; if I had my way, I would major in everything, because the world is my passion.
One last note before I end this. When talking to a fellow student about what we were majoring in, I said Communications. It was then followed by what can you do with that degree, I explained to her I could write, do advertising etc. The funny thing is she is a Biology major and said to me, wow I couldn't do that you must be really smart. You know what I said to her, wow I am so jealous that you are so smart to major in Biology. She never liked writing, and I was never good in the sciences. So as you can see as that old saying says, never judge a book by it's cover, you never know what you may find.
#50 THAD
on March 23, 2008 at 6:43 a.m.(Bloomingdale, IL | Unverified Name)
Theatre and English. Two "useless" degrees.
I'm now 2 years out of college and working at Starbucks by day to pay rent. But at night I've got a sweet stage managing job with a non-profit theatre company that's going places in the next few years (and I don't just mean touring shows).
I'm happy. An no matter what "respectable majors" may say, that's not going to change.
#51 harpo
on March 23, 2008 at 10:21 p.m.(Perth, Australia | Unverified Name)
just remember:
it's better to die trying than to never have tried at all.
I would rather shoot for the stars in a career I am passionate about and fail, then be on my death bed saying "I wish I had..." or "If only I had...."
#52 EEB
on March 26, 2008 at 6:21 p.m.(Cleveland, OH | Unverified Name)
In response to those who are passionate about more practical majors and were dissatisfied with this article: I don't think this group, this article, or people in the liberal arts in general think you aren't passionate! Of course people are passionate about different things, and more power to you for pursuing what you love! Unfortunately for us liberal arts-ers, it's a little bit more difficult to decide to major in what we are passionate about it because our friends and family often try to dissuade us and with the knowledge that we probably won't be materially rewarded much at all. So I think this group is about us celebrating our decisions to be courageous and pursue these things we love even though it may make some things tougher for us in the future, because we know that it will ultimately make us happier to have this passion as the center of our lives rather than choosing something we aren't happy with.
So, everyone who is passionate about something, whether it's art, engineering, music, science, english, math, whatever, hooray for us for finding something we love! And anyone up against opposition in their dreams, be brave, persevere, and be great!
#53 jessika
on March 31, 2008 at 1:52 a.m.(Kenmore, WA | Unverified Name)
well, first of all, i love that people debated this subject for almost a year now.
as for me, i am a sculpture major. i do not want to have a silly side job that in the end just ends up taking up time and distracting me from my art. i want to be a full time working artist and that is what i am currently working toward being able to do. however, i understand that, without the amazing boyfriend and family that i have right now, i would have the two extreme options of succeeding in my dream and become in turn successful as an artist and wealthy too, or end up literally under an onramp near pioneer square, homeless, and making little sculptures out of garbage people throw out of their car window - which is an idea pretty hip in the visual art world anyway. so yes, i joined this group when i saw it, because i'm stubborn and proud as i am to live in seattle, i do not want to work in a coffee shop and wish all day that i had had the guts to try and make it doing what i really do want to do.
and yes, i do know what the shift key is, but this is an online response to a discussion on an article written a year ago about a facebook group. so screw you if you judge me.
#54 Ximena
on April 2, 2008 at 4:22 p.m.(Denton, TX | Unverified Name)
I feel glad that I have found this group. I spent nearly a year beating myself up about leaving music and going to English. Not that I don't love it, for literature is one of my loves, but I do regret leaving the Music major out of fear that it would bring nothing. Now that I know I'm not the only one, it makes me feel a little better.
#55 Here's Hoping
on April 11, 2008 at 7:17 a.m.(Stony Brook, NY | Unverified Name)
As reiterated my some many comments before me, A degree does not necessarily mean you must pursue a job in that particular area. I for one am majoring in Anthropology. I am not going to be an Anthropologist. As much as I'd love to, and I love learning about it, learning about new discoveries, wanting to be the one to study cross-cultures, religions, the classics, discover a new civilization (present or ancient)...I am not going to be an Anthropologist despite the fact that it is my passion and has been for at least 10 years.
I planned my life around this and devoted much time to it. I still do. But a have reached a revelation recently. I want to have a family, and with a job like this, I can be with or without a job within a week, unless I want to work in a museum. I cannot get married and have kids if I cannot provide a proper home for them. Therefore, how the hell can I do something I enjoy, while still being able to provide?!
Well, take my Social science degree, go to grad school and be a History Teacher! And while doing this, why not continue going to school for a class or 2 to continue studying and doing what I love while still being at least a bit financially stable!
All I'm trying to say is, don't just think of yourself when you want to obtain a career. Think of those around you when you are making a decision on your life. It's one thing to go blindly into a career, and another thing if you are looking at the bigger picture. Get a degree in whatever makes you happy, get a job with what makes you happy (I know i will!), and continue doing what makes you happy while bringing in the dough!
I don't know about you, but I am NOT listening to what my grandparents say: "Ohh! You want to be a what? An Anthropologista?Ooo, bien bien! You can do that because you will make sure you marry a Rich man!!" haHA!! I dont think so. I will not depend on my spouse. Nowadays, it may be necessary to bring in 2 incomes, and I am not going to have my husband break his back for me. It's the least I can do for him. (Not to mention, my boyfriend is a Sociology major and has come to the same realization as me. It is very hard to obtain a job, and will take even longer to obtain financial results. So he is going to be a teacher too! We both hope to be teaching our passions to High schoolers and will try to encourage the High School to open Courses in Sociology and Anthropology!)
See? There are things you can do with your degree, and passion if you are willing to be a bit flexible. After a little bit, I may be able to make some decent money too!
#56 Who Gnew?
on April 11, 2008 at 7:34 p.m.(Seoul, Korea, Republic of | Unverified Name)
I think that this can be divided into two groups: those who had their higher education paid for by someone else (whether it be parents or scholarships, etc.), and those who didn't. Because, after all, isn't the most important thing the avoidance of major debts, such as student loans?
We can all find a job that can pay the day-to-day bills (rent, food, etc.), and those of us who choose educations that won't bring large financial rewards can easily be cool with that. But none of us want that cloud of huge debt for the balance of our lives - either a major portion of our paycheck going towards paying off the student loan, or being hounded by collection agencies when we're too poor to make payments. The process really makes you feel like a criminal in your own country. And it does nothing for your self-esteem.
When you're overloaded with debt from the start of your life, that makes it very difficult to plan for the future.
#57 Gidget
on April 22, 2008 at 6:35 p.m.(Fayetteville, AR | Unverified Name)
As a music education major, I get really tired of people thinking it's easy. I don't know how many times my engineering friends have looked at me and said "I wish I had an easy major like music". It's not easy. I'm not going to go on a rant about how much work being a music major is because others already have. No matter what your major is, if you really truly love it, it's going to take up a whole ton of your time. If it doesn't, you aren't doing it right.
People shouldn't bash one another for their major if they are truly in it because they love what they are studying. However, I know many many people who go into college doing what their parents want them to do, going into something like business or engineering, because they think it's going to get them a high paying job. You know what, it probably will. But the people who just choose a major because it's what someone else wanted them to do are going to be miserable, no matter how much money they make.
College should be a chance to study something you love. If you can make money at it, great, but if not, at least you enjoy it. I know I'm going to be a poor teacher who is going to get her funding cut by the state because "music isn't important". You know what? I wouldn't change my major to anything else. Sure I have days where I hate being a music major. It's incredibly stressful, and it consumes a lot of time. Who doesn't hate their major every once in a while? I end up loving it again every time I go practice or think about how much I want to share my passion for music with young kids. That's what really matters.
Do what you love, love what you do, and just be happy!
#58 jenny
on May 1, 2008 at 3:11 p.m.(Minneapolis, MN | Unverified Name)
why is it so important to be pratical? you dont need to be making a lot of money to serve our society well. in fact, most people who are making a decent amount of money are spending it poorly. while its nice to be able to buy things that you want, its not helping anyone but yourself. you may think you are supporting the economy, which you are, but in turn have you ever stopped to think about what our economy supports? child labor, sweatshops, and companies that are more interested in operating on a profit based level than value based is not something i want to be a part of. I am going to minneapolis college of art and design, and plan on gettng a degree in either drawing/painting or print/paper/books. I didnt come here because i thought i was going to make a lot of money, i came here because i love art, and i love the alternative lifestyles that surround me. Just because you pick a major that is "impratical" according to our capitalstic society doesnt mean you can't live a happy life and make a difference in the world. And as for the comment about "improving society instead of pursuing the path of least resistance." Please, what this society needs is a major wake up call. We live in a country so selfish and blinded by material items that the majority of people would never even consider the fact that they are part of the problem. This world is a much bigger place than just America, and it contains much bigger probelms than what you are going to wear tomorrow. So it is not impratical,it is honest and truthful to who you are as a person to choose to study something you are passionate about. Going to school isn't always about getting a job and moving on to the next step. Its about LEARNING, gaining knowledge, and maybe even finding a perspective that is unique to you, something of little value in this society.
#59 Sellout
on May 3, 2008 at 9:48 p.m.(Minneapolis, MN | Unverified Name)
I admit it... I looked at all of those fuzzy liberal arts fields, and then I realised that you would be putting in waaaay too much time, money, and effort for what you'd get out of it. The only class I ever really got off on was chemistry, and mostly because the teacher we had was so completely batsh*t insane that every day was an exercise in hilarity. I also really like calculus. So, I'm a future engineer I guess ~ I'm actually pretty sure that I will enjoy the coursework, but after that I probably will just get bored. I have the math mind and the art personality. Basically I'm just plain crazy.
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#60 art major
on May 4, 2008 at 7:24 p.m.(Southport, NC | Unverified Name)
okay so i havent read any of the recent posts, but the first ones...wow
ill just say this,
i am a painting major
i pay rent and i live in the art building
sleep is not an option
i will probably never make heaps of money
and i am absolutely okay with this
because every time i put paint onto that canvas
my heart explodes.
and all i need is that in life.
so if it means waitressing at some dive until im 80, selling paintings on the city blocks of New York
then im absolutely okay with this.
because happiness is so much better than being practical.
otherwise i would of gone pre-law like my mother always told me.
#61 Sociology major
on June 6, 2008 at 8:22 a.m.(Islamabad, Pakistan | Unverified Name)
I'm not going to make like a ton of money or anything but I'm going to spend my life doing something I like and enjoy. The thing with me is that I kinda enjoying DOING Sociology. You know what I mean? I'm sure every non-Sociology major shall refer to my degree as a useless piece of paper but this is something that I like doing thats why I'm like persuing it.
#62 Sidney B.
on October 14, 2008 at 3:33 p.m.(Wilton, ME)
The idea that a degree exists only for the purpose of career is, admittedly, a valid philosophy, one which is prevalent in today's society (I'm assuming here that there will be no argument that this "pragmatic" approach is an offshoot of materialism, correct me if I'm wrong). However, there are other philosophies out there, among them that of knowledge for its own sake.
When did hat idea go out of style? Since when was it a crime to pursue something because you love it? The fact that there's no immediate prospect of monetary gain in a course of action does not mean that the person persuing that action is not sound of mind ect. It just means that person has a diffenerent set of values. Following that set of values will not always be easy. Commiseration lightens the load. Long story short, don't attack the goddamned facebook group. It's certainly not hurting anyone.
#63 L
on November 8, 2008 at 11:20 p.m.(Chesapeake, VA | Unverified Name)
MTH is just mad because they arent happy in their job. And will never wake up in the morning and be excited to see there coworkers. MTH is more than likely one of those people who gets up everyday and drags themself to work. Im sorry but i dont want to wake up everyday and say dam i dont want to go to work today. I may be in nursing but i have passion for it. I will probably never make as little as some people in the arts but if they want to be happy so be it.
#64 PC
on November 27, 2008 at 3:11 p.m.(London, United Kingdom | Unverified Name)
I did both- I did music, and I did computer science, and when I did music I loved music and it was all I could think of, and I hated computer science. I did it because it was the other major that I hated the least out of anything else I could think of.
Ten years later, I remember the music degree fondly and I do not regret any time that I spent doing it. But I am now a programmer and I love it. I don't regret the computer science now, and some of the reasons that I love my job are the same reasons I used to love composing music. I don't regret not being a musician now, and I also don't regret any of the time spent in the practice rooms.
Back then, I could never have known that I wouldn't hate programming. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that one may not know at the age of 18 what one's true passion is. Trust me.. I still don't. But I don't hate programming any more.
#65 Schenectady
on December 4, 2008 at 8:43 p.m.(Berea, OH | Unverified Name)
okay, i'm an international studies major, and it doesn't have the 98% unemployment rate that theatre does [i'm planning on becoming a theatre minor] but i have no idea what to do with it. it doesn't matter to me, though, since i love it. i meet all these business majors, and they're so depressed! they hate their major! now why would you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to school, and spend all that time in classes you don't even *like*? also, your major does not have as much relevance to the future job you'll have as internships and field experience. i have the deepest respect for music majors; kids in the conservatory have a hellish schedule compared to my quite lax lib arts schedule. just do what you love. nobody knows what the future holds, anyways. =)
#66 Victoria
on February 4, 2009 at 4:08 p.m.(Windsor, Canada | Unverified Name)
This is to MTH. Whatever happened to an education for education's sake? Isn't higher learning something one should strive for? I, personally, am not a music major, but someone might wish to attended university for music to increase their technique, ability and knowledge of the field. The purpose of going to university is not to gain a job. It's to gain an education.
#67 Wendy
on February 18, 2009 at 8:29 p.m.(Austin, TX)
MTH--A couple of things. 1.) Your first comment sounds like you're assuming that any major in the arts field is easy. Let me tell you that nothing is. Sure, we don't have to "study" in the traditional sense, but we do pour our heart and blood (sometimes literally) into every project. We strive to produce the best we can, we invest a little bit of ourselves into every piece all for the acceptance of our peers and professors. Grading a math test is objective; it is ten times harder to get a good grade subjectively. Take it from someone who's experienced both; I have an art degree and am now working on an accounting one. I spend far less time on my business classes. 2.) I don't think my major is impractical, nor do I really mind the low pay. I do, however, think it's unfair because we deserve so much more. The harsh truth is that people don't understand and don't appreciate. Photography IS a growing field though, even if it's not doing so well right now. But most fields aren't. I held a photography job for a month before getting laid off due to bad forecasting on the company's part. My friend, who majored in finance, hasn't been able to land any job in that field. So your degree for job argument? It's pretty much null in today's economy.
Personally, I think people without job stability are more flexible. Since we always have to be on our toes, we don't fall into security traps and are less likely to be surprised by lay offs. In any case, I may want to do accounting in the near future, but I will inevitably go back to photography once I save up enough. See? Flexibility.
#68 Christina A.
on September 15, 2009 at 10:54 a.m.(Weaverville, NC)
First off, I think this argument has gone on far enough. Everyone is bashing each other which is silly. Whatever major you are pursuing know what to expect. MTH was only trying to play the devil's advocate and say that many people who pursue their hobbies as careers end up for the most part dissatisfied. Is that a generalization? Yes. But is it really? I am a musician and I know that if I were to pursue music full-time as a career it would be stressful and make me miserable. I love music but do I want to make it my career and try to make money doing it? Absolutely not. Everyone has their passion and I agree that everyone should study what they are interested in but just go into it with eyes open. I am majoring in english with a teacher licensure, when I used to think I hated teaching. However, I am learning that I like teaching and it doesn't hurt that I will have job stability when I graduate. After all, everyone has loans to pay back when they get done regardless of their major. And having a steady paycheck doesn't hurt...sorry I don't want to live in poverty. I have lived there and I don't want to go back.
#69 nigel
on November 19, 2009 at 12:40 p.m.(Singapore, Singapore | Unverified Name)
I'm a English major. After fours years of a liberal arts education, I'd say MTH is fighting a losing battle; we did spend a ton to learn how to argue competently after all...
We're also fiercely passionate about it!
But I do agree, a steady paycheck is just as important as indulging in your interests.
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